Understanding Warrior Stacking Issues

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Darchon_Xegony, Nov 30, 2020.

  1. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    Having boxed a Warrior from PoP-RoS on the Phinigel server, we are finally at the point where warriors are similar to their state on Live servers so I can ask for specific questions about the underlying mechanics of the abilities the class has access to.

    My first question I guess is how all of these abilties interact. If for example I activate everything simultaneously I would have all of these abilities running:
    • Ultimate Stand - 1: Increase Melee Mitigation by 45%
    • ToV BP Click - 2: Absorb Melee Damage: 50% over 25000, Total: 937500
    • Warrior's Rampart - 2: Absorb Melee Damage: 80% over 24000, Total: 193153
    • Aggravate Recourse - 3: Absorb Melee Damage: 50%, Total: 33178
    • Dissident Shield - 3: Absorb Melee Damage: 40% over 11000, Total: 704000
    • Brace for Impact Proc - 5: Absorb Melee Damage: 18%, Total: 170000
    • Ultimate Stand Proc - 6: Absorb Damage: 100%, Total: 36783
    • Finish the Fight - 6: Absorb Melee Damage: 100%, Max Per Hit: 6230, Total: 2741000
    • Myrmidon Synergy - 9: Absorb Damage: 100%, Total: 12000
    • Wurmslayer Worn - 14: Absorb Melee Damage: 100%, Max Per Hit: 1750
    • Cleric's Shining Buff - 12: Absorb Melee Damage: 10%
    • Spire of the Warlord - 3: Increase Chance to Parry by 15%
    • Blade Whirl Proc - 2: Increase Chance to Parry by 90%
    • Warlord's Bravery - 1: Decrease Hit Damage Taken by 15%
    • CoA BP Click - 1: Decrease Hit Damage Taken by 15% -- Above blocks CoA BP from landing
    I know there are plenty of other defensive AC / heal increase abilities. But I think these are all of the mitigation / avoidance abilities warriors have access to.
    1. So lets say I have a 100k melee hit about to hit my warrior. How do all of these abilities interact? This may answer all of my questions below but I figured this would be a good way to illustrate how all of them work.
    2. Does the Ultimate Stand's Melee Mitigation component calculate first?
    3. Do the Absorb Melee components only use the highest value, does it use 1 per slot, or do all of them stack together?
    4. The Warrior's Rampart / Dissident Shield lines that only absorb melee hits over a certain damage threshold, do they absorb that percentage on the entire hit or only the portion over the damage threshold?
    5. The increase parry chances from Spire and Blade Whirl trigger, do they stack together or does the highest take precedent?
    6. Do the Decrease Hit Damage Taken pieces from Warlord's Bravery and CoA BP stack with Ultimate Stand's Melee Mitigation? It sounds like Decrease Hit Damage and Melee Mitigation are the same effect but I am guessing there is some nuanced difference.
    I think these are all the full spell effects for the abiltiies summarized above:

    [58553/15825] Warrior's Rampart Rk. III
    Classes: WAR/114
    Skill: Alteration (Combat Skill)
    Endurance: 2155
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s, Recast: 10m, Timer: 16
    Duration: 4m+ (40 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
    Hate: 8894
    2: Absorb Melee Damage: 80% over 24000, Total: 193153
    Text: Your armor shimmers with radiance.

    [58541/15802] Ultimate Stand Discipline Rk. III
    Classes: WAR/113
    Skill: Defense (Combat Skill)
    Endurance: 2834, Upkeep: 12 per second
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s, Recast: 10.5m, Timer: 2
    Duration: 3m+ (30 ticks), Dispelable: No
    Hate: 1
    1: Increase Melee Mitigation by 45%
    2: Add Melee Proc: Ultimate Stand Effect III with 100% Rate Mod
    3: Stacking: Block new spell if slot 2 is 'Add Melee Proc v85' and < 999999
    Text: You steel yourself for a last stand.

    [58544] Ultimate Stand Effect III
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s
    Duration: 30s+ (5 ticks) Song, Dispelable: No
    Hate: 1350
    6: Absorb Damage: 100%, Total: 36783
    Text: A shimmer of runes surrounds you.

    [58523/15827] Finish the Fight Rk. III
    Classes: WAR/112
    Skill: Defense (Combat Skill)
    Endurance: 1080
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s, Recast: 5m, Timer: 18
    Duration: 3m+ (30 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes
    Max Hits: 600 Incoming Hits Or Spells Or DS
    6: Absorb Melee Damage: 100%, Max Per Hit: 6230, Total: 2741000
    8: Absorb Spell Damage: 100%, Max Per Hit: 6230, Total: 2741000
    Text: You feel no pain.

    [57812/15732] Dissident Shielding 6
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s, Recast: 6s
    Duration: 30s+ (5 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
    Max Hits: 600 Incoming Hits Or Spells Or DS
    2: Absorb Spell Damage: 40% over 6000, Total: 704000
    3: Absorb Melee Damage: 40% over 11000, Total: 704000
    4: Increase Max HP by 25%
    5: Absorb DoT Damage: 30%, Total: 704000
    10: Increase Hate Generated by 100%
    Text: A shield shimmers in your vision.

    [58532/15806] Aggravate Recourse III
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s
    Duration: 12s+ (2 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes
    Max Hits: 2 Incoming Hit Successes
    3: Absorb Melee Damage: 50%, Total: 33178
    Text: You brace yourself for an attack.

    [16054/49710] Myrmidon's Synergy III
    Classes: WAR/254
    Skill: Melee
    Target: Caster Group, MGB: No
    AE Range: 60'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Stacking: Myrmidon's Synergy 3
    Focusable: No
    Casting: 0s
    Duration: 6s (1 ticks) Song, Dispelable: No
    Max Hits: 6 Incoming Hits Or Spells Or DS
    9: Absorb Damage: 100%, Total: 12000
    Text: You are guarded by Myrmidon's Synergy.

    [52284/32178] Impact Guard XI
    Classes: WAR/254
    Skill: Defense
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s
    Duration: 12s+ (2 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes
    Max Hits: 12 Incoming Hit Successes
    5: Absorb Melee Damage: 18%, Total: 170000
    Text: You up your guard.

    [48551/16293] Spire of the Warlord XII
    Classes: WAR/254
    Skill: Melee
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: No
    Casting: 0s
    Duration: 90s (15 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
    2: Increase Chance to Avoid Melee by 8%
    3: Increase Chance to Parry by 15%
    6: Add Defensive Proc: Warlord's Weakening IV with 100% Rate Mod
    10: Increase Hit Damage Bonus by 70
    11: Increase AC by 26 (Raw=350)
    Text: You focus on the spire of the warlord.

    [41217/30700] Blade Whirl IX
    Classes: WAR/254
    Skill: Defense
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s
    Duration: 36s+ (6 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
    2: Increase Chance to Parry by 90%
    Text: Magical blades whirl around you.

    52280/16097] Warlord's Bravery VI
    Classes: WAR/254
    Skill: Abjuration
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s
    Duration: 48s+ (8 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
    Max Hits: 75 Incoming Hit Successes
    1: Decrease Hit Damage Taken by 15%
    Text: You shift into a defensive posture.

    [6392] Guardian's Bravery
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s
    Duration: 24s+ (4 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
    1: Decrease Hit Damage Taken by 15%
    Text: You shift into a defensive posture.

    [47969] Wurmslayer's Guard
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: No
    Casting: 0s
    Duration: 120h (72000 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes
    14: Absorb Melee Damage: 100%, Max Per Hit: 1750
    Text: You are guarded.

    [46835] Roaring Shield
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: No
    Casting: 0s
    Duration: 3m (30 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
    2: Absorb Melee Damage: 50% over 25000, Total: 937500

    [25255] Shining Defense
    Classes: CLR/89
    Skill: Abjuration
    Target: Single
    Range: 150'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s, Recast: 4.5s
    Duration: 4.5m+ (45 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
    Max Hits: 3200 Incoming Hit Successes
    12: Absorb Melee Damage: 10%
    Text: A shining defensive glow surrounds you.
  2. Szilent Augur

    SPA168 reduces the random portion of incoming melee
    • Ultimate Stand - 1: Increase Melee Mitigation by 45%
    • Defensive Proficiency II - 10: Increase Melee Mitigation by 12%
    SPA197 reduces the total damage of incoming melee
    • Warlord's Bravery - 1: Decrease Hit Damage Taken by 15%
    • CoA BP Click - 1: Decrease Hit Damage Taken by 15% -- Above blocks CoA BP from landing
    SPA451 absorbs damage off the top of high melee hits
    • Glyph of Dragon Scales - 6: Absorb Melee Damage: 35% over 5000
    • Roaring Shield(ToV BP Click) - 2: Absorb Melee Damage: 50% over 25000, Total: 937500
    • Warrior's Rampart - 2: Absorb Melee Damage: 80% over 24000, Total: 193153
    • Dissident Shield - 3: Absorb Melee Damage: 40% over 11000, Total: 704000
    SPA162 absorbs damage off the bottom of melee hits
    • Finish the Fight - 6: Absorb Melee Damage: 100%, Max Per Hit: 6230, Total: 2741000
    • Wurmslayer Worn - 14: Absorb Melee Damage: 100%, Max Per Hit: 1750
    • Aggravate Recourse - 3: Absorb Melee Damage: 50%, Total: 33178
    • Brace for Impact Proc - 5: Absorb Melee Damage: 18%, Total: 170000
    • Cleric's Shining Buff - 12: Absorb Melee Damage: 10%
    SPA55 absorbs all damage
    • Ultimate Stand Proc - 6: Absorb Damage: 100%, Total: 36783
    • Myrmidon Synergy - 9: Absorb Damage: 100%, Total: 12000
    SPA175 isn't hit mitigation like the others are. not really part of the conversation.
    • Spire of the Warlord - 3: Increase Chance to Parry by 15%
    • Blade Whirl Proc - 2: Increase Chance to Parry by 90%
    Kanjin and Wulfhere like this.
  3. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    Okay so if I understand that correctly, you can use one of each SPA? Or do SPA451, SPA162, SPA55 have some conflict where it only absorbs the highest value?

    So when using Ultimate Stand, Defensive Proficiency (forgot to include this) doesn't do any mitigation (other than it's shield block increasing).

    When using Cleric's Shining Buff on hits over 17,500, the Wurmslayer Worn effect doesn't factor in. When using Finish the Fight, the Wurmslayer Worn effect doesn't factor in?

    Sorry for all of the questions, but the mechanics of damage calculation haven't been clear to me for many years.
  4. Szilent Augur

    Correct on all counts
  5. p2aa Augur

    I believe that the order of operations on a hit : first SPA 168 ability applies, then the SPA 55 one, then SPA 162 one, then the SPA 451 one, then the SPA 197 one.

    To be more clear on stacking, the game will calculate for 2 abilities of the same SPA active, the one that gives you the least dmg, and apply it. This will be done for every hit you receive. So they still factor in somehow if that makes sense.
    For example, it's possible that for one hit, it's Finish the Fight that applies, and for the next one, it's Brace for Impact.
  6. Gazzi New Member

    You have 3 families of damage reduction that come in order :

    - First one to fire is "Melee mitigation" SPA168 on DI part of damage formula.
    - Second one to fire is "Decrease Hit" family, SPA197 on full part of damage formula. (Guardian's/Warrior Bravery )
    - Third ones are runes effect with labels like "Absorb....", Not sure 100% but I will say SPA numeric order ( ie 55 first to apply ).

    Interesting points :

    - If you fire SPA197 and/or SPA168, all your "total damage capped rune effect SPA" will last longer ( ex 451's roaring shield, dissident line, 162's... ) because of apply order.

    - If you fire same SPA line, they don't stack but the best mitigation will apply. In some heavy damage situation ( raid ), you can take advantage of that mechanic to get better protection and to make some of them last longer. ( the ones that are capped in total damage ). Depending on the damage amount of the hit, one will be activated and not the others, resulting in a gain of duration for the other and a most effective protection.
    Ex : Tanking raid mobs in rotation, Fireing 451's together like Dissident and Roaring Shield will be more effective and longer or equal than alone separately.
    Same idea for 162's. Fireing Finish the fight line/or diplomatic paper every time it is up along Brace for Impact will make that last one last longer and you will be better protected for low hits.

    It is interesting to draw a chart in excel showing the %damage reduction depending on the hit damage by SPA to see the breakeven of what is fired depending on the hit damage.
    [IMG]


    G.
    Szilent likes this.
  7. Wulfhere Augur

    What about Wurmslayer's Guard?
  8. Gazzi New Member

    Wurmslayer is competing in SPA162 and is 1750 rune by hit I think. Major warrior's 162's we use :

    Defensive Proficiency
    Brace for impact
    Finish the fight
    Diplomatic paper

    if you run Finish, it is obvious it will never activate, if you run only the shield stance, breakeven is a hit round 30k. IE will trigger for hits ( after being reduced by the 2 first families ) below 30k. If you run brace, breakeven drops to 8000 which makes it pretty useless.

    Gonna try to upload a chart if it works that time :
  9. Gazzi New Member

  10. Tucoh Augur

    Gazzi likes this.
  11. Tucoh Augur

    Wurmslayer is great at allowing you to go to zones that aren't quite that old and doing this in them to massive crowds of mobs:

  12. The real Sandaormo Augur

    Hate to be the bad guy here but best way to learn Warrioring is to go out and warrior. Best players didn't learn to do it from a stat sheet or a chart. This goes for all classes to be honest.
  13. Szilent Augur

    There's nothing in go-out-and-do-it that exposes purely mechanical stacking inefficiency
    Tatanka, Denyu and Gazzi like this.
  14. Tucoh Augur

    You need both. The game does not teach you SPA stacking, spreadsheets do not teach you muscle memory.
    Tatanka and Szilent like this.
  15. Chaosflux Augur

    The game should have more information on SPA stacking and how they work within the game, or alternatively a wiki where you can goto one place and get the info instead of having to search through 20 years of forum posts to see how works.

    But yes, all the best players use spreadsheets and muscle memory, this is an RPG not an action game.

Share This Page