Two Kronos a month for Aradune

he just called me a cheater too by "cheating gameplay" because I have a different playstyle than him... no wonder the world is at war when this is the type of people we are up against, everyone not like = cheaters all of em

I don't care about your reasons. They are irrelevant. Why you cheat, how you justify it does not invalidate my argument, it merely attempts to excuse your position.

I played in 97 (alpha/beta), I also built servers/networks/software and was friends with 2 ISP owners (I had a special setup with 2 modems, 2 lines with one modem handling each direction of traffic which myn friends were testing for service. I spent over 8k on some of my equipment for home. I am well aware of prices of the time, as I negotiated large supplies with the wholesalers.

EQ was a niche game back then as most people couldn't afford the machines to play. Most of those who played were techies, academics, industry professionals, and the extreme hobbyist.

Yes, there was a price drop, but it took a while for this to happen and EQ at its peak was only around 500-800k subs around PoP. Also, that price drop was not everything, processors dropped a bit due to AMD, Ram prices shot up, then went down again. Point is, the cost of machines back then were far more expensive than today where you can pick up a micro PC for under 100 bucks the size of a wallet, setup a input switch, and run multiple machines easily with macro/script control keyboards, mice and software.

Also, those true box servers are just live servers with slow rule release. They are nothing like EQ was and have favored your desired play style to cheat over my points. The fact that you have to actually by cheap hardware to box on a TLP is not the same as my objection to the numerous easy mode cheat implementations that are in EQ these days. So no, there are no servers out there that attend to the things I want and as has already been explained, True Box is irrelevant due to technology today. It isn't a restriction like it was back at release.

I keep seeing responses like yours though. The vehemently objected arguments for something that would have ZERO effect on you, but you deem it important to go out, and tell other players they MUST play on your cheat servers, because you would be offended if they had their own server, while you go into some diatribe excuse about how you are personally justified for cheating.

Yeah, sorry... Not buying it. You can sell your snake oil to someone else.

You do realize this only validates that comment even more? You aren't very adept at arguing a point are you, even in jest.

He has positioned himself as the absolute arbiter of truth, everyone else is simply wrong.

He's an ideological zealot, that's why I linked the Witchfinder General because that is his entire stance, we are guilty no matter what we say, if we are tossed into the river & drown we are innocent, if we float or swim we are damned & shall be hanged, in this way his argument is infallible and unassailable, it cannot be reasoned with, it cannot be debated, he is right & that is all.

He isn't taking part in a debate he is dispensing the truth as he sees it., nothing anyone else says has any value whatsoever to him. He has not entered into a discussion he is preaching his mantra & everyone else is just a filthy heathen.

He is the light, the truth, the way, the one true god, everyone else is a cheater & buys their plat from Yantis.

Actually, I explained quite clearly what cheating is. You admitted it, then defended it, now your are claiming you are not and just have a different play style? Ok... fine, you like to cheat, so what is your point?

The fact that you are turning this into such a victim hood and then proclaiming us at complete war because of differing opinions, is a bit dramatic don't you think?

All of a sudden I am not your "enemy", a violent opponent of oppression because I point out your desired game play approach is to circumvent game play with real money or such?

Sounds like that is a bit of... bloviating to deny the facts here. /shrug

You missed the point beautifully.

False, I have outlined a very specific establishment of argument, to which is logically established. So far some of you have used emotion, dismissal, evasion, personal victim hood, etc... and now personal attacks and condemnation, association to violent conflict, to proclaim your validity.

It rather sad to be honest, and childish.

You're operating from a position of your own personal definition of cheating, not the definition of cheating as given by the game company, by doing so everyone is a cheater in your book, everyone except you.

Anyone who ever traded in any way shape or form has cheated by your strict definition of cheating being anything you gained that you did not go & get yourself, so no this is not the game for someone as pure as you are, you are too good for this game, too good for us.

Rather you did. You are trying to imply that I am proclaiming dogma, but you do so while completely ignoring the logical establishment of the argument. In fact, when I say "me thinks he dost protest too much", it is pointing out that you are getting emotional, and very combative, and irrational with accusations as you are. In fact, you are projecting with such as you have forgone logical argument to advocate for such wild accusations. "Burn the witch" is exactly what you are doing as you no longer (not that you did previously) even attempt to provide the illusion of logical or civil discourse.

You were irrational from your very first point, I was naive to think you would be any different after discussion.

You haven't used logic, you have used absolutism & claimed it to be logic.

Your logic is not just flawed it is fallacious.

Everyone else is operating under the assumption that staying withing the rules set by the game company is not cheating, you have concocted your own definition that has nothing to do with the games rules and used it to label everyone a cheat.

Maybe in your little world but according to the rules of those that OWN the game then I am not cheating, and I should know since I have been a guide for years, talked to and asked many of the upper ranks what is okay and what isn't and nothing I have done is cheating, until you decided you didn't like it and didn't agree, so must be cheating, so "clearly it isn't cheating" even though you in your little mind of jest is so convinced that it is... and I can see from others just above in this thread that you are just a childish sad person that probably got kicked out of a group because you suck at playing your char and that person happened to be a boxer, so down with all boxers!

Even though I helped more than one person on Lockjaw get a group and good grind (boxed 4 back then) so had 2 strangers in grp every day and they sent me tells the next day asking for grp, so they must really have hated it, so they wanted more of that "omgzorz cheating stuff"... *rolls eyes and walks away from this sad pathetic being in this thread*

No, I am operating from the definition of cheating, the definition of a game, the purpose of its design.

A game is a set of rules, conditions, or objectives to which one or many compete against another, themselves or those conditions to achieve a success outlined by those conditions.

While you can technically argue that paying real money to "influence" the games rules is "part of the game", I have already explained clearly that this is a semantic argument that chooses to ignore the honest aspect of what a game is. Allowing outside monetary influence to adjust game play is an rule element that is not balanced for play, and due to its nature, specifically circumvents the in-game aspect of accomplishment. That is, you are buying to avoid having to play the game.

While you can argue semantics and to the letter means to proclaim this practice "part of the rules", it is a devious argument that ignores the fact that this practice did not exist in these games legally, or accepted initially and was specifically viewed as cheating by the very people who created the game.
The allowance of a cheat as a rule doesn't invalidate what is actually happening here. It is dishonest word play.

You go ahead though, you already have shown numerous times you have no desire to honestly argue a position as you feign victim hood and bloviate with emotional qualifiers.

You carry on, you have already proven my position absolutely. No sense arguing with someone who has already invalidated their own position.

Good day! Enjoy your cheating!

Your definition of cheating is not the same as the game company uses, therefore you don't have a leg to stand on.

To clarify so we can invalidate your point.

Sony and Verant (the makers of the game) for years argued how this practice harmed the game. There were numerous posts by Brad, Devs, and SoE representatives explaining how this harmed the game, how they were looking for ways to stop it.

This changed... Now they claim it isn't cheating, because they use it as a monetary gain for the company? After years of claiming it was?

Sorry, your argument is invalid.

It is like arguing with a turnip.

Good luck!

What the Devs were arguing was that Yantis was profitting from the game & taking money from players that should have gone to the developers, that was what Krono helped to capture.

You're trying to make that out as something it wasn't, this is a false argument.

You are, yes.

Turnip-God.

That is not true at all.

I remember all the posts, the long discussions, the detailed arguments by devs about how plat selling harmed game play, how it harmed in game economies, how it took away form other players, created numerous problems.


You either are ignorant of the fact, or making things up to support your position.

In fact, there is years of companies arguing this, the problems, etc...

Are you very young? You certainly had to see these articles? It wasn't a secret, it was common knowledge.

Yes Plat selling by Yantis etc. harmed gameplay - because EQ had armies of third world country players playing the game to generate platinum for Yantis to sell for cash, that problem was largely eradicated by two things, the decline of EQ as competitor games caught up & the reduction of the market for plat with the advent of Krono providing a way for players to legitimately buy platinum from other players & eroding the plat selling websites ability to generate revenue, that in turn reduced the armies of plat-farmers.

in game advertising by those selling plat harmed gameplay because they spewed plat selling adverts in game to such a large degree it made being in general an unpleasant experience & made it nearly impossible to use general chat for what it was intended for. & again Krono was the thing that solved that problem for the same reasons as it removed the plat-farming armies.

Krono took the money Yantis & his ilk were making & put it back into the game & reduced the impact upon the game that black market had created.

Trading between players is an expressly allowed activity & not considered cheating by SoE, Daybreak or Darkpaw & the vast majority of the playerbase, but is considered cheating by you.

You are conflating what Yantis & his ilk were doing with the actual player-driven economy that operates within the rules, they are not the same thing.

Eesh. Will you two make out or something?

Just agree to disagree. Or is this one dude just refreshing a really horrible idea of a thread?