Tuco's Setup (Critique Welcome!)

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Tucoh, May 6, 2017.

  1. Dreadmore Augur

    Yeah, you can outtank me, but I was using two cleric mercs, so it may be that group healing is too important to counter the meteors with a boxed cleric? Maybe substitute the wizard merc for a cleric merc to have more healing?
  2. Vaeeldar Augur

    ROS T2 group gear, all augments, trophies/tribute, plus EOK chase loot which is equiv EOK raid in all spots. I'm somewhere around 210,000 hp unbuffed I believe 6050ac. With full buffs + cleric HP auras I end up just under 300k. You have to remember even the temp Hp buffs nights gets add 24k HP (defiant stance rank 2).

    Gear has change and buffs have changed.

    I might actually try that. Honestly I saved the wiz until post veteran phase anyway to better control. Might be interesting to try. I just spam group heals though - literally hotkey that just run group heals the entire fight (never stop once). His mana pool is like 185k mana so.
  3. Vaeeldar Augur

    Dreadmore said:
    Yeah, you can outtank me, but I was using two cleric mercs, so it may be that group healing is too important to counter the meteors with a boxed cleric? Maybe substitute the wizard merc for a cleric merc to have more healing?

    So I tried that. Didn't make any real difference bit harder overall I'd say the issue is really two meteors are impossible to survive without the clicks working but the clicks just seem so hit or miss to me. I don't know I'm not a big fan of this event for progression by any means.
  4. Tucoh Augur

    Ever since the Quarm server came out I've bounced around the idea of what team I'd make if they had a box-friendly Quarm server. I settled on a 4x mage, enc and cle/dru combination pretty on and have thought about how it would work and what I'd do to perfect it ever since.

    This weekend curiosity got the better of me and I set up my team on Bristlebane. I got up to level 32 or something. It's OP in early levels of course. I'm just mowing mobs down en masse. The most time consuming part is updating my mage's DD and pet spells, my cleric/enc spells and keeping their skills high. I'll spend 15 minutes getting them all up to date and then 10 minutes outleveling everything.

    Anyway, I've got my sights on seeing what I would do to meet and exceed my melee team in versatility and DPS. I've got some pretty good ideas on how to handle multi mob pulls, coherent DPS stacking etc, but the big wall that I'm seeing in my future is how to not steal aggro from my pets. Based on the information I see, I don't see how my mage pets will hold aggro if the mages are juicing it with ADPS from a dru/enc. My melee team can kill a mob every 15s or so, and I hope to beat that, and that is just a very small window of time for a mage pet to establish aggro without the dozen or so instant cast abilities a warrior can spam to establish aggro at the start of every fight.

    I've never played an enchanter, and never really had to deal with aggro since my warrior's aggro generation capability far exceeds anything a DPS can produce. It seems like mages increase their pets aggro via hate masks they buy in the bazaar, but other than that (and keeping the mage pet's fully buffed with an enchanter) I'm not sure what options I have. Maybe replace one of the mages with a beastlord for melee ADPS?
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  5. IblisTheMage Augur

    Put RS pets on top of multibind, keep AA maxed, and you should be fine with Air or Water wielding rage swords :). Using 4 air pets will stun blue mobs a lot.

    Disable taunt if you trust RS pets, healing will then be minimal, since you are sacrificing RS pets.

    Earth pets are for special occasions, their aggro is too low to be really useful (the mask does help), but they tank really well. Mixing in an earth pet can cost dps, since your pets will have to travel farther on longer pulls before they engage, but of course also adds some time to nuke... But Air is better for this also...

    I would probably change the enchanter to a /melody bard, it is more consistent outcome, and notably also very low maintenance. He will add swarm pets as well (to get to 15+ for Volley). He also have real nice songs for the RS pets :). Bard Synergy nukes are very nice.

    If you want to do harder progression, well, that will be a challenge :-D. Here the enchanter can help, but a tank will help more...

    Changing one mage to a beast should definitely increase dps when fighting, but will add a lot of work... This type of group will typically pull from a stationary position with everyone starting to nuke at the same time, killing all the way in, and trying to have only 1-2 seconds (or less) between pulls, and have no run phase in pulling, every second is dps from first aggro. Quite a few mage spells have long distance, so you can have mobs die soon after they arrive at the camp. That is why positioning the bard for melee will cost more dps than it adds.

    Crawling is with CoTHs, of course.

    Splitting is either with mages selecting different mobs, then send in all at once, or with bard punting.

    An "oh crap" button can be for sending pets to different xtar. Or having an enchanter have him get control of the mobs. Mages will die :). The vulnerability in the team is the mages themselves, of course, they are probably the most squishy class in the game, and tight spaces with wall aggro will be an issue from time to time. When everything is yellow, you need to have the initiative at all time with a group of squishies...

    Looking forward to see some videos! :)
    Tucoh likes this.
  6. BadPallyGuildLeader Augur

    That setup is kind of what I did in EQ before my current, more conventional, setup. What I found was that pulling, mob positioning, and crowd control resulted in unnecessary deaths in too many cases. That snap ability to move a mob somewhere or position them correctly without the cloth class taking melee rounds was incredibly missed with the mages as tanks. Pathing in EQ still will make you scratch your head. The enchanter does help a great deal but time to response before casters start to take hits becomes an issue when you get to certain levels of content.
    Tucoh likes this.
  7. shiftie Augur

    With the change of pets holding aggro when a pc is near probably removes most of your concerns. Iirc he uses broadcasting that many mages casting and assisting with a rs pet would be silly for control purposes
  8. Tucoh Augur

    Thanks for the tips, I look forward to trying them out when I get to a higher level!


    Dreadmore and IblisTheMage like this.
  9. Tucoh Augur

    I'm really glad I took that group picture after renaming my team, just because I think EQ is gaslighting me.

    Somehow my Tucoearth mage summoned a pet named Water when I was testing my buff macros =\ Next two casts it summoned one named Earth though!

    moogs likes this.
  10. BadPallyGuildLeader Augur

    If I were to do something like that again it would likely be on agnarr and would be after letting all my other accounts on live go to non gold status (maybe for a hiatus to Test server?). I have the enchanter, druid, and mage already on Agnarr. So a few more mages and $$$. I just wish it wasn't true box 8-(
  11. Sancus Augur

    Do you have all of them cast their pets at the same time? There's been a bug for like forever that pets cast simultaneously-ish sometimes share names. It's fairly common with swarm pets on raids, but it can happen with normal pets too.
  12. Tucoh Augur

    Yes, i had them cast simultaneously. I figured it was something like that. Easy to offset the timing.

    Now if i can figure out what im doing wrong with my glowing black drum drogmor mount that is causing them to despawn and not summon all the time ill have all my pets squared away......
  13. Nibcat New Member

    Tucoh, Great to see this update from you. After the PM about the mage setup i actually switched my setup on Phinny over to something similar because primarily for raid reasons, we have to many tanks, and I want to bring a class we could use on a raid.

    I now use a BST, 2 Mages, Wiz Clr Brd I have an enchanter waiting in the wings to take over for the bard. Experiencing issues swapping brd for enchanter right now due to being addicted to travel speed and being able to snipe targets out of packs with the bard and his own set of swarm pets, but my enchanter will shine again!

    With the Bst and Mage Swarm, + Wizard Sword my Of Many strikes are amazing, ontop of the wildburst casts from my wizard.The DPS is really decent at the level i am.

    Im pretty sure there may be some encounters/tasks/mission i cant do with a pet tank, but so far im loving it. I didnt mind having a tank. On Pulls since i pilot from my Beastlord, i usually pull with slows, unless i use Brd/Enc to break/pull. This gives me time on the pull to get my pets assisted to the beastlord target and attack/taunt. Soon as the pets have it i just mash my multibind on my mages and wizard. I do cast the swarm pets and On Many spells on a separate binds. Still need to work on my setup since im on a truebox server i have no outside apps to assist me.

    I do find multiple pulls pretty rough at 80, things in Secrets of Faydwer hit hard and fast at 80/Tier 3 zones. But my pets to tank slightly better then my undergeared SK and Warrior at this time, only real downside that i see personally is handling multiple mobs is rough with my bard compared to my having my enchanter.
    Tucoh likes this.
  14. Tucoh Augur

    Here's a quick vid of my enc/cle/4xmag team at level 65 fighting 4x mobs in the Plane of Fire. There's nothing impressive about it and it's a little atypical, but it's really just to show where I'm at.

    The strategy I'm pushing toward is dispersal of damage on all four (or 5) pets and even the characters themselves. Level 65 is really the first level this works at since that's when pet classes get pet affinity that allow their pets to be hit by group heals. Before then healing is whack-a-mole style and 3+ mobs exceed the healing throughput my cleric provides. It was pretty easy to level, but the cleric didn't really provide that much since their heals weren't that necessary against singles and their heals were insufficient against 3+. If I wanted to build an effective team for levels 64 and lower, 5 mages who were set up to heal their own pet would probably be better, but after 65 the cleric becomes invaluable.

    My setup uses hotkeys to target different extended target #s for each mage's pet in order to disperse them and hold aggro on all of them. Ex: Earth's pet always hits ET1, Wind hits ET2, Water hits ET3 and Fire hits ET4 (I might extend that so Earth hits ET1 and ET5, Wind hits ET2 and ET6 and so on). The video demonstrates this, where after a short time (but almost too long for Tucocapt!) each of the four pets have aggro on their assigned target.

    After hitting this hotkey, each mage then targets ET1 and focuses on them. My enchanter tashes/slows, Tucoearth Malos, then they all (even the cleric) pile on their DDs.

    The current weakness I have are that the system is a little brittle. Anytime I can't kill extended target #1 because it's out of range or whatever the whole thing falls apart. If I lose a pet, that pet then runs amock and kills the cleric. If a pet charges a mob that's out of healing range of the cleric, they'll get toasted. I've got some ideas of how to solve these problems, but I haven't yet.

    The other weakness is that even with some defiant gear and an enchanter I run out of mana after a dozen or so mobs. This isn't too bad because regen is super fast with the drogmor mounts and the break provides me a minute to tweak my social macros, hotkeys, gina triggers etc. I have a high level druid/enchanter/beastlord that I can campfire in (and a cleric/shaman/ranger if I wanted to) for high level buffs but that's kind of cheating. If I spent some time to get some mana-related AAs or focused on my gear a bit it'd be a lot easier.

    Obviously I'm making this harder on myself than I need to, because I'm not making use of the enchanter's ability to mez or pull singles. I'm mostly doing it this way for fun and to prep for harder situations where I'm unable to CC / single pull, which are really the encounters I'm going for. Even with f2p accounts for my mages/cleric.

    Any thoughts are welcome!
    IblisTheMage and Nibcat like this.
  15. IblisTheMage Augur

    Tired ramble inc, it is quite late :)

    I too experience mana issues, that is why I pack an enchanter AND a bard.

    The group rune on the enchanter is really handy, I have it on the thumb button on the mouse.

    You could also build aggro on four targets with four pets, then redirect all pets to one target, damage will still be dispersed, and you get mobs cleaned up faster.

    You get the shock-mal at some point, also an option for pulling non-summoning mobs, with ISB if is fun to open the ball with simultaneous debuffing nukes :).

    It is super good that you train to handle multiple mobs as default, it is the weakness of that box that you adress that way, I never got really good at that.

    If you petattack all forces on one mob, then shift to next target when it is dead, will often be sufficient if the mobs you aggro are close to each other, and you keep your distance to the battle... this works best in relatively spacy areas. But I guess you also do this :).

    I transport differently that you: I run to spot then group coth; casting some runes that land just after coths, so time is better spent. It is an advantage wrt minimize the footprint of the group, if a roamer should apear. It also helps if the group is attacked, and the enchanter use PBAE stun/mez defensively, both to cc, but also to pull aggro from mages.

    I am not sure 4 mages do more damage than 3 mages and a bard, especially if you count in reduced downtime with a bard, and a bard can also make a nice amount of swarm pets, which helps with Of Many line...

    I normally only tash and malo for debufs, slow has been mitigated quite a bit I understand.

    For named mobs, the Stance rune works well, it stacks with Auspice pet rune (AFAIR). It does not stack with Velocity.
  16. Petalonyx Augur

    I run mage-mage-dru-pal.

    I am a huge fan of the rain spells. They do a ton of sustained dmg and are mana efficient. I try to have 2-3 mobs in camp to capitalize on rain dmg. The mages rarely have mana issues if using the appropriate tools. The paladin does the pulling. He does about the same dps regardless what he's doing (lol).

    Might try the rains if mage mana is an issue.

  17. Tucoh Augur

    Got one of these (from the newegg ebay sale, was $720 or something):

    Decisions decisions...

    With swapping (Where the selected character is always on the big screen):

    Three on bottom, three on top

    similar to my setup now, just replacing a 1200x1024 monitor up top with a 1920x1200 and the bottom 1920x1200 with a 3440x1440:

    I'm leaning toward the bottom one just for the hilarity of it all.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  18. Dreadmore Augur

    Why stop at 6 characters with all that screen space? Form your own raids!
  19. IblisTheMage Augur

    Does it affect your zoom-out-distance to have a wider screen?
  20. Tucoh Augur


    I might record a video of me doing the lava trial. It's pretty wild...
    Tarvas, IblisTheMage, Pirlo and 2 others like this.

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