Tuco's Setup (Critique Welcome!)

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Tucoh, May 6, 2017.

  1. IblisTheMage Augur

    As a Swarm/Of Many preferring mage, I want to keep all pets on the same mob. If I am camping in a Nameds aggro zone (which I normally do because I get more mobs that way, as well as a nice boost of adrenaline when named pops), I will redirect all pets to the named for aggro, and then back to finish of the mob that they where on (or mez it). This applies to a group without a real tank.
    Sancus likes this.
  2. Tucoh Augur

    My thoughts are that as a professional programmer for the last decade writing code for EQ's UI is really challenging (read, a nightmare). I'll upload my UI files and post a link in this thread.

    One thing I really want to do is put a red background behind the health bars in the group window, such that if anyone gets aggro and starts getting whipped I'd suddenly see a big red bar start to appear on my group window.
    I hadn't really considered it, but thinking about it now I'd say no because:
    1. My setup is built on everything except DoTs focusing on whatever my warrior has targeted, so when I want to focus on something I don't have to worry too much about what my pets are doing because they are getting spammed with attack/swarm commands. If all my swarm pets were attacking some beefcake named mob instead of focus firing on his low-HP minions, I'd risk my mitigation buffs running out before his minions died.

    2. I'll frequently switch targets when a mob is <20% health such that whatever incidental DoTs I have + riposte + ae damage will finish him off. With the amount of variability in the number of swarm pets I have up at any moment, them sticking on the mob will reduce my ability to do this.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  3. Fohpo Augur

    Pretty much the same reason I don't queue up the swarm, if I'm switching targets it's because I either want that target dead or expect it to die for various reason on its own.
  4. Orbital101 Augur

    As off last week Ive been using Volley of Many and Alliance with 2 mages and its almost game changing DPS wise. Thx to Pie to make me feel bad for not using Alliance from running Fell foliage with 3 main mages. Its when I decided to give it a shot. Hell Alliance was just out of my vocabulary in an alt mage perspective. Now I almost feel like ditching my wizard from my team of War, Cle, Bard, Mage,Mage considering Im having trouble to parse over 200k dps with my Wiz when I can go over 400k with my mages. I dont have the feeling I have with the wizard that I was using in TBM with my ench that could one shot named at that time. I'm just to much into mages atm to figure doing better with my wiz. I was thinking possibly a druid as my 6th but lets see how much damage this week patch does with hope that they also fix transfer account to account asap. Most of my best toons are on my cleric account and I dont feel like starting over with a new toon when I already have over 20 105+ all ready to go.

    It would probably be easier with a third mage as I did get a glimpse of a few hrs with 3 mages replacing my cleric for a Merc but im to rough to use a Cleric Merc and I often do raid instances where I need a real cleric so unless I have my ench around for runes with my cleric merc to fix the slack that they often enjoy taking , merc are not for me. I also feel like I would be missing some utility from the Druid or Wiz when at the same time a third mage would offer as much in different ways. Ideally moving my cleric to another account would open many possibility as I could just alternate class for my 6th. I have a few of each class but SK,Pal,Necro and BST which I alternate along the year to keep me busy but personally i'm not a big fan of boxing melees. I will lvl them up and get the essential and thats pretty much it. The Ranger and the Shaman are mostly for buffs and Alchemy, possibly ranged fights if any?...I dont think there was anything since RoF that gave trouble close range. My rogue is mostly for making maps, collection and scouting! . Unless something come up where one of the above could simplified a task. Aka using my rogue in TBM Crypt of Sul mission Decay Decreased was making it a joke. I could do it on my bard or even my warrior but no matter what happen every now and then. If it wasnt of Tolzol I would never even bother with berzerker for some reason its not a class for me but its almost funny grouping with Tolzol, pulls rarely even make it to us and when they do they turn around and flee low health!

    Anyway I went through all the pages on this thread and I see people talk about bards smash key in the first few pages. Between all my toons I will spend most of my time on my warrior then my bard and then everything else chilling unless the stuffs I do require other wise. I weave my casters with a pretty nice setup that Im very happy with the evolution Volley of Many and Alliance took. Note that I also started using ISB not to long ago after many years of giving it a shot here and there to just let it go but now... I could n go back to my 5 lines nukes with pause lol. To have some type of control on my alts all on my warrior is just hallelujah! I never really boxed with alt tabbing anyway but with 3 monitors for 4 alts sharing one with my cleric and mage. I've been looking at Pistol4Panda video and im like god how the hell can he enjoy this screen switching:eek: Setting up the casters is pretty simple. I did had to fix things around many time to get it right but you cant expect one button to do everything and you also end up figuring what can be done or not in the early stage of ISB. Some people might think it does it all for you but its far from doing it. I suppose if you have programming skills you can give it a bad name but then I couldn enjoy playing that way.

    The only issue I have is with my bard /melody and my keys...Smashing keys with intimidation, bane strike etc is fine but still need to separate them from spamming my spell weave or I risk to either interrupt my melody which seem to always happen when im not looking or even worse bug it out to require to zone. All my macro start with /stopsong and end back to my /melody to try to keep them to a minimum. By minimum I mean if I end up with 2 extra row of macro I wont put what ever else there just to fill it up like I do on my warrior. I rather create another social to be used for a specific role then to fill it up to risk to bug my self up. Ive been talking to Bahdah since he also box a bard with a warrior more oriented to melees instead of casters so it might be easier to mix things like disc and skills then spells/songs/disc/skills. I I try to keep things separated and regroup things with same refresh timer and split my bard pets to match up the gap of my mages to maximize my Volley of Many nukes. I single click Boastful Bellow or Shout when I feel it right since you end up out of end pretty quick if you use it every 18ish secs but its kinda sexy seeing it proc for 1-2 mils. Its something you cant really put in a spam key unless that spam key is meant to be smash every 18 secondes but then I feel like this is no more a spam key...Using the same keys that I use to smash my 4 different keys for my mages and cleric is not ideal so I often feel like I have to create extra just for my bard. It somehow became a second nature to not click even instant clicky, disc and AAs near the end of a song. I cant perma click on my bard like I can do on my casters. Ive been working around it but it can be bothersome at time to constantly double checking if my songs are still running.

    And gdi the goal was to post a line or 2 and here I am still typing! In a few quick words... You guys with bards been able to smash like lightning without song to be interupted?
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  5. IblisTheMage Augur

    I went back to standard UI, I need something that is a lot more compact :). I made 5 ISB areas 800 x 80 right above each other, with (from left to right): target, spell being casted, own HME-P, one hotkeybar two rows high, Aura (partial), if pet: partial pet-a small part that shows if the pet has a target.

    I would love to slim this further, taking some pixels of the height, but with thicker bars and strong contrasts.

    The overall idea is to remove all that is not used, and have as few eye movements across the screen...
  6. Tucoh Augur

    two weeks later.... sorry!

    There's three folders there, mage, bard, war.

    What it really means is that for the mage the endurance bar isn't shown, for the war the mana bar isn't shown, and the bard has both shown in the self-UI.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  7. Tucoh Augur

    I missed this thread because of Kingdom Come: Deliverance, but you're not alone in having trouble keeping the bard's melody going reliably.

    Ironically most people chose the bard as an easy box because if you have it play /melody you can shove it in a corner and get decent utility out of it, especially if you just tab over to put fierce eye and quick time. But once you add insult to your melody and use your epic, you make it much tougher to keep /melody up.

    As I've said above, my setup has a simple chain of:
    1. Initial "Assist Key".
    2. A Light Burn key
    3. Spam Q E 1 T until everything is dead.

    All the characters I have do a bunch of different things for their "Assist Key" and their light burn key, some of which having nothing to do with assisting or self buffs! Ex: The shaman hits the mob with winds of malo on assist, the berserker tries to get 'em with a cheap shot and then does his self-harm + sub 90% health buffs etc.

    Currently, my bard stops his melody on assist and pops his epic 2.0, then in his light burn key he starts his melody. This causes his melody to desynchronize, but that's acceptable because his melody is ordered by importance. As long as maetanrus and war march are kept up, it doesn't matter much.

    I've had much better success with this instead of trying to keep tabs on melody with it dropping off all the time because of insult, or having to monitor it while I'm trying to pop vesagran.
  8. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    Started a bard recently and leveled super fast up to 30 (total extent of my knowledge), really I know nothing, never mained one.

    /melody stop
    is also a thing. I've only seen /stopsong mentioned.

    I'd trust anybody's information over mine, I don't really know bards, but wanted to throw that out there in case you're not using it in macros.
  9. Fohpo Augur

    As far as boxing the bard, add a /stop on the first line of your FE + Epic macro and your /melody macro, make sure that if you have Crescendo it's at the end of your /melody - those two things will go a long way towards increasing melody uptime. As far as other things, if you have dual monitors, keep your bard up on the second monitor or if you're using ISB make a point of creating a preview window where you can see songs to make sure they're being played.
    Pirlo and MasterMagnus like this.
  10. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    Also audio triggers for?
    "miss a note"
    "can't cast spells while stunned"
  11. Fohpo Augur

    Whoa, lets not overdo it now
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  12. Tucoh Augur

    So the other boxers uploading videos inspired me to make a couple videos.

    The first is me farming some golems for my berserker's hoarded worker's sledgemallet. This is pretty easy killing, but shows how I move around with a melee group and keep everyone on target. You'll here gina whining at me by saying "See" everytime my berserker doesn't see his target, and "far" when his target is too far away. This can get pretty annoying but is critical to me keeping my melee team on target. I'm running with selos here, and you can see how easy it is for my team to run around and separate. With Selo's It's not uncommon for /follow to fail here and someone runs circles around my warrior or gets stuck somewhere, but it didn't happen this time. It's especially worse while recording because of the performance hit. As shown in the OP of this thread I have everyone visible at all times, which allows me to easily see when someone gets stuck. You can also see that I regularly make use of press the attack / grappling strike to maneuver the mobs rather than try to move my team.

    The second video is me pulling a couple easy packs of mobs around the Myrmidon Tundak Spawn. On this one I popped all my defensive cooldowns and my ranger/bard/beastlord's 100% proc buffs (they are all dual wielding ToT healing proc sticks), so this is a fairly trivial fight. You can see Tucoh's health never drops beneath 90% or so, because he's just getting blasted by ToT healing sticks.

    I used Open Broadcasting Software to record, which allows me to show gina timers which I find critical to show what's going on. I have a more verbose description of what those bars are in this thread, but you can see my defensive stuff on the left, my ADPS on the right etc. You can see the I S Boxer grid in the bottom left, which I use to track my bard's vainglorious shout, my ranger/bard/beastlord's 100% proc buffs, my team's horn of unity and my team's circle of power buffs.

    Gamparse output for killing golems:
    A cliff golem in 207s, 124715k @602489
    --- Tucoh 33563k@(162926 in 206s) [26.91%]
    --- Tucos + pets 32881k@(160394 in 205s) [26.36%]
    --- Lelentos 20971k@(102801 in 204s) [16.82%]
    --- Tucob + pets 15519k@(75702 in 205s) [12.44%]
    --- Tucolord + pets 14581k@(71475 in 204s) [11.69%]
    --- Tucocat 4206k@(20619 in 204s) [3.37%]
    --- Tucodog 2974k@(14509 in 205s) [2.38%]

    Gamparse output for the two group pull:
    A Fereth partisan in 82s, 87196k @1063368
    --- Tucos + pets 34614k@(449529 in 77s) [39.7%]
    --- Tucoh 20802k@(253688 in 82s) [23.86%]
    --- Tucob + pets 12330k@(158081 in 78s) [14.14%]
    --- Lelentos + pets 11687k@(146087 in 80s) [13.4%]
    --- Tucolord + pets 4862k@(63147 in 77s) [5.58%]
    --- Tucocat 2772k@(36000 in 77s) [3.18%]
    --- Tucodog 122k@(17498 in 7s) [0.14%]

    On review, I feel like the biggest thing these videos show is that I'm clearly not getting everything I can out of my ranger / beastlord. I mean, my bard is out DPSing them on the two group pull (Though he got half his DPS from vainglorious shout). They are still getting important AAs, but I've got to figure something out for them.

    If anyone has any recommendations/critique, feel free. Same with questions, though they may be answered earlier in this thread in this post and the few that follow it:
    moogs and IblisTheMage like this.
  13. IblisTheMage Augur

    Darn, you just raised the bar again :).

    This setup >> caster group, hands down. The speed with which you move everything into place is just beautiful.

    Who knew EQ could be a spectator sport?
  14. Dreadmore Augur

    I've come to learn that the game is pretty forgiving. A full group of real players can be less effective than a good boxer. As long as you've got a good setup, good situational awareness, good reaction time, and good dexterity on the keyboard and/or mouse, a box group manages to do quite a lot, even when playing each character at less than, say, 60% effectiveness.

    I imagine this wiggle room is to allow for communication issues and reaction times between several people, but one person boxing doesn't need to account for that. Well that's my theory at least. Full groups of real people have trouble with End of Empire, even with the right group makeup, but some can box it with barely any effort (it only takes ~7 minutes, after all!).

    So maybe you're not at full effectiveness on your ranger and beastlord, but you're already accomplishing more than what a typical real group could.
  15. Tucoh Augur

    I think this overstates how good most box groups are. I don't know of any box groups that don't have to be on their toes on End of Empire, and I myself feel like if I tried really hard I'd still only be able to defeat it if I don't get the bug where soulfeasters don't aggro.

    Where coordination is easy is being able to go from logging in to killing stuff in a few minutes because you don't have to coordinate with other people. Where coordination is hard is when the system you set up fails in some critical way. Ex: in my setup if my tank dies it's pretty much game over. With real players behind the wheel each class has its own ways to mitigate that kind of disaster. Whether it's the shaman doing hitting their AE root, the bard/ranger/beastlord popping cooldowns to tank, or everyone just kiting the npcs around and healing through summon mechanics.
  16. Vaeeldar Augur

    Yeah empire isn't easy. I did 30 attempts today had boss down to 10% on one run but double meteor killed me. I still haven't figured out way to box this yet. Meteors are always the death of me at some point even though I can heal through/surive one no issue.

    This mission is not fun and ridiculous for group game. I've got full chase loot, buffing to 300khp, and it's still not an easy mission to tank.
  17. Dreadmore Augur

    I'm sure it depends on the classes for that one. The passive soulfeasters are much easier if you've got casters of course. I've got separate box groups for melee DPS and caster DPS. My casters have been through it all, but the melee one is still up-and-coming. I know that is going to be a pretty fun challenge.

    But End of Empire is a special scenario and one specific mission anyway, so it depends what you mean by being "on their toes." If you're boxing alone, you are always on your toes to some extent since you can't fall back onto other people. End of Empire requires you to be specific with your DPS and change targets often, but that's no different than doing it with real people either.

    Anyway, I sure don't know how good (in relative terms) most box groups are. I just know that a good (in absolute terms) box group can be really effective, and it's easier and quicker to reach that point than coordinating with other good players. Good for when you have limited playtime.

    This implies that you don't have something set up to handle emergencies. This is a long thread so forgive me if you already explained that you do something like this beyond the first few posts, but it may be useful to have keys for scenarios other than just battle. For example, a travel key; a quick rebuff; a full rebuff; a mana regen/cannibalization... .

    Similarly, you could have emergency keys set up for such situations in battle. One to make everyone fade; if you know fading won't save you, a variation of that where all but the ranger fades so he grabs agro and he hits defensive skills; another to have someone cast evacuate; another to have the cleric or shaman divine res or call the tank; another to AE mez; another to activate some near-instant kill shots to reduce the threat... .

    Things go crazy for me often enough that I needed to set up for those situations, and I have them well in my muscle memory :)
  18. Dreadmore Augur

    I think I have read of one or two boxers here who box End of Empire. What is your group makeup? If it's any consolation, I have seen EOK raid-geared paladins fail to tank End of Empire ;)
  19. Vaeeldar Augur

    So originally I was going at it with SK, Shaman, Necro, Mage, Bard and Cleric Merc. It's now Sk, Cleric, Wiz, Mage, Bard and Wiz merc and it's a lot smoother. I'll find a way to beat this soon enough as with the new setup my only issue is the meteors. I've gotten named down to sub 50% with no adds and just had a bad run of meteors about half a dozen times.

    But your post sort of hints at my concern with this mission. The weakness isn't my SK i'm basically sitting at EOK Raid level stats, every top aug in the game, all trophies (well except the collector one which I'm about 80% done), and max AA and I'm still struggling with this mission. I really don't see hot the average grouper gets thru it. Then again I haven't figured out how to deal with meteors - even using the bard, wiz, mage which I can time dps wise to click - the clicks never seem to work even if I am in the center.

    Edit - Also I don't want to hijack this thread but it's very telling that nobody is posting about this anymore. As best I can tell the average grouper has just given up on VP access.IF I was less stubborn I would also but I've never not finished group content while in expansion and I refuse to let that happen here.
  20. moogs Augur

    What in all crap...Admittedly I've missed about 3 years but I'm just over 150k buffed on my druid and thought that was pretty solid. I think we're playing different games.

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