Tuco's Setup (Critique Welcome!)

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Tucoh, May 6, 2017.

  1. IblisTheMage Augur

    Tucoh, some crazy theory craft:

    How would mage, bard, and 4 beastlords do? Assuming all melee have heal batons, and could all be played by people?

    How would they be from level 1 to say lvl 75?

    How if it was a box with ISB?
  2. Tucoh Augur

    I think the power of the group would largely depend on being able to tank multiple mobs, being able to tank high DPS mobs, healing AE / DoT damage effectively and cycling alliance properly.

    I haven't leveled my 4xmag + enc + cleric team to get alliance on the mages so I don't really know how difficult it is to effectively cycle alliance in a high DPS group that kills a mob every 15seconds. Beastlords have the advantage that their alliance fulminates off instant cast DoTs vs mage's/bards/whatever cast time spells but I think it's more trouble than it's worth to coordinate when there are much better options.

    TBL named have increased the trend of having high AE damage to the point where running without a healer is almost impossible. In the mag/brd/4xbst configuration, in many encounters one(or two) bst would be forced to exclusively heal themselves and the brd/mag while the other bsts healed themselves and their pets inbetween attack rounds.

    In the end I think it would be too frail of a group, with too much overlap in contribution and their DPS wouldn't be high enough to warrant the lack of a tank / healer. I think you could replace one of the beastlords with virtually any non mag/brd/bst/nec class and improve the group.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  3. Tucoh Augur

    and as far as how good they are from 1 to 75, I'm not really sure except that on live with defiant gear leveling is totally trivial and virtually any group works.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  4. IblisTheMage Augur

    I have Alliance in my (dormant) box, and it is only for nameds, and not essential (pre-TBL).
  5. BadPallyGuildLeader Augur

    I have three mages I box on occasion with a shaman. When I expect multiples I will alliance all the pets, turn taunt on with all of them, and make sure I block all merc promised spells and HoTs(this is always done anyway). Pets are always close enough to grab a heal from alliance going off and then shaman do spiritual swell along with a cloud of renewal. The synergy is great on that setup.
  6. IblisTheMage Augur

    :). Having two healers is powerful.

    My theorycraft was motivated by a thought of having only dps classes in the group, if possible. 4 bst could rotate paragon, mage could rune pet and have it tank and grap aggro, ideally also getting proc heals etc. Pre-TBL it might be possible, say on a TLP, for the lulz, but as Tucoh says, not feasible in TBL, with stronger options available with say for example a warrior tanking and dpsing.
  7. Tucoh Augur

    Just as an example of a typical tough AE mob in TBL:

    https://tbl.eqresource.com/evasionunderstandingflow.php

    Casts an 8 wave AE:
    [45398] Fire and Rain
    Target: Target AE
    Range: 1000', AE Range: 100'
    AE Waves: 8
    1: Decrease Current HP by 149189
    2: Decrease Current Endurance by 2000

    https://tbl.eqresource.com/sixthconsumingmaster.php
    casts this AE DoT:
    [45666] Blinding Dust
    Target: Caster PB
    AE Range: 200'
    Duration: 18s (3 ticks), Dispelable: No
    1: Decrease Current HP by 95959 per tick
    2: Blind

    I don't honestly know what the typical mitigated damage is from these, but it's no joke. When I go up against most TBL named I just prepare to cycle my AE heals indefinitely. There are many ways to avoid taking damage, but if you're trying to put together a good 6box group you generally want to have something that can muscle through tough encounters.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  8. IblisTheMage Augur

    In reality, Forum Quest and youtube is the closest I get to EQ these days, with the newborne, the kids, and all :)
  9. BadPallyGuildLeader Augur

    I honestly dont count the mercs as healers :rolleyes: in the sense that they can intelligently manage a variety of situations. They do and can be spot healers. I force that from my mercs in every way I can. The shaman is the real single healer in my setup. If, however, I am just grinding, I have a second, better equipped and extremely high AA'd shaman I can substitute. In that case he is out of group and might be grouped with a cleric. Then the EXP group is the 3 mages, bard, and if I feel like it a warrior or SK doing some tanking. This is how most PL for krono\plat setups work. I just copied what they do and I benefit from the EXP group slots, not them :)
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  10. Tucoh Augur

  11. Tucoh Augur



    The only thing that kept me sane when doing this event the many attempts it took was recording it so I could post super obvious failures and include funny gifs.

    I'd feel a lot better about beating it if I could point to some strategy or trick I used that worked reliably. But nope, my advice to anyone trying it is to just keep trying because it's just a probabilistic failure mechanic you need to keep rolling the dice against. I know someone who took 49 attempts to get it.

    It's a great example of what happens when developers reach beyond their grasp and implement an objective for the player that requires a buggy system to not bug out in the 100 or so hops you need to do each run.
  12. Tucoh Augur

    I wish I had attempted this encounter in RoS, I could've had that familiar for TBL!

    It was a pretty fun encounter, and doing it in 9 minutes it was very quick.



    Combined: Talendor in 288s, 308.2m @1070274 |
    Tucos + pets@(326.8k in 285s) |
    Tucoh@(320.3k in 288s) {D} |
    Lelentos + pets@(177.1k in 286s) |
    Tucob + pets@(112.8k in 286s) |
    Tucolord + pets@(97596 in 285s) |
    Tucocat@(28204 in 284s) |
    Tucosha + pets@(8713 in 279s) |
    Tucodog@(17599 in 92s) |
    Reverse DS@(1640 in 25s)


    I really need to figure out why my beastlord is so low. He got beaten by the bard =\
  13. Debauche New Member

    Drop that UI for us bud!
    Tucoh likes this.
  14. Tucoh Augur

    The last achievement I needed for TBL challenger!

  15. Tucoh Augur

    I got this question and got permission to repost here, because there's some answers I'm not 100% about.
    1. A rog/enc is a pretty tough duo, because even with an enchanter's help you're going to have a tough time keeping the merc tank alive and holding aggro.

    2. A war/sha duo is quite good, and while I don't know what the best ways to pull with them are, I would look toward Spiritual Rebuke and other root spells the shaman has to help CC mobs.

    3. With a plate tank you have a bit of a chicken and egg problem: Once you get your warrior geared/AA'd, with a shaman healer he's going to be a monster that can tank very well and DPS well in dual wield mode. Getting to that point before you're geared/AA'd however, can be difficult. It's a lot easier if you can get a full set of conflagrant gear from RoS tradeskills, but I don't know how expensive it is, or how hard it would be to farm the conflagrant diamonds you need.

    4. DPS wise you should be doing OK if you can properly use your shaman's DoTs. Hit the mobs with
    your pet
    Pack of Mirtuk
    Languid Bite
    Chaotic Poison
    Elkikitar's Pandemic
    Jinx
    Nectar of Suffering
    Rirwech's Affliction
    and your shaman will be pulling a lot of weight on mobs. Meanwhile your warrior should be doing good DPS in dual wield with your shaman's
    haste
    Talisman of the Wulthan
    shaman 2.0 epic
    Lion's Roar.
    You can also look into using Feralisata. For survivability, your shaman's top three reckless heals + cloud of renewal (once you get the synergy AAs) + spiritual squall are quite good when backed up with debuffing the mob with turgur's. Additionally, keep alliance and incapacity up on the warrior at all times.

    5. Ideal 2box for a warrior would be tied between war/bard and war/sha. The war/brd is going to have the edge on tracking and pulling, and the war/sha will have an edge on survivability. I think they'd be pretty close in terms of DPS, CC and general utility.

    6. If you want to be able to do 100% of the progression with group-geared characters, I think you'd have to at least 3box. I'd recommend a berserker as a third character. Adding a berserker to your war/sha would provide so much DPS that once you properly integrate him, you won't want to play without him.

    7. I use Inner Space and recommend it to anyone trying to box. People can do OK without it, especially with a warrior tank that you can just hit your defensive abilities, get aggro and then keep aggro with auto attack + harmonious expanse, but it's worth at least trying out inner space and then deciding whether it's worth it.

    8. Maintaining gold status isn't mandatory on the shaman or third character, but you'll definitely want to have a sub to earn their AAs before you make them free to play.
  16. Mazame Augur

    Don't Trip.

    This one is not as hard as everyone is making it out to be.

    The 1st time I got it was with 2 bst where we pet tanked it. I then went back and got it for about 6 other groups. The trick I had is simple "less people"

    Fill your group with the 6 people that need the /ach.
    Then have only 2 or 3 people zone in.
    The other can drop group but stay in the task and AFK.
    Those that zone in can then pop merc for extra DPS / Heals whatever.
    Kill the 4 named in order.
    When you killed the 4th name, have the 3 people that were killing just stay there at the 4th named and not risk falling.
    Drop merc and re add to group the other in the task.
    Have one person zone in and go open the chest.
    All 6 will get the /ach

    Yes 6 people can do it faster but the fails will drive you up the wall. With 2-3 people the pads don't seam to cause issues and you get the win even it it takes a bit longer to complete.
    Desean-Xeg likes this.
  17. Tucoh Augur

    I kept my cleric back for the achievement, but your idea of using mercs and parking people out of the instance is a good one. I could've kept my shaman back too and had two healer mercs.
  18. Zinloz New Member

    Thank you, Tucoh. Apologies if I messed the formatting on this up majorly...



    Should clarify here that I was doing rogue/shaman and enchanter/shaman. Both were decent until I started working in EoK. Spam healing the tank merc with my 110 shaman and it still almost died to named in FM. The enchanter is significantly better since CC can make things so much easier, but the problem is really the tank merc. I have multiple problems with them, as I'm sure everyone else has, and is thus why I decided to go with a tank.



    Sorry, I also should have mentioned his gear. Gear is actually not that bad now. He has full Battleworn and most of the drops from GMM mission #1, including the shield I got this morning. He's mostly missing AAs and augs (I have the shield aug from FM, that's about it, other than mark of valor ones). He's not too bad, and I can definitely be working on some EoK+ stuff. His main problem now is DPS, and particularly hard pulls. If gear/augs will change this then I could see shaman/war being much better, it's just the kill speed that's lacking, even with 2 wiz mercs on burn and decent merc AA. Any recommendations for AA ordering to help kill speed? I've almost maxed out the crippling one, not sure where to go after that, though.


    Using roar+2.0 as much as possible, and of course keeping buffs up from shaman. Also debuffing a lot, normally the first thing shaman does on pull. I try using the DoTs more on shaman, but they just chew threw his mana (shaman gear is pretty bad, still doesn't have all 110 focus items). This is with maxed canni AA and using it on cooldown. I have a similar heal setup so I think any tank issues are related to augs/AA/overpulling with the warrior. Does alliance work without a healer merc? I thought it only triggered from other heals, not those cast my the alliance casters. Incapcity helps a lot for sure.

    Running DW with warrior, parsed it at around 60k on dummy with just haste (and maybe focus). Haven't checked it in a real setting yet, just feels much slower than rogue/enchanter, like orders of magnitude slower. It's workable, but...would like it to be faster. I'm assuming more AAs and better weapons (currently using 2 from GMM mission) will improve this drastically? Could just be I need to make better use of my shaman, I'm definitely not using him very well right now in terms of DPS.

    Could also just be an expectations issue.



    Thanks for this, I likely won't level a bard on shaman account then since you think they would be a similar pairing (assuming I stick to 2 boxing to begin with). I'm not sure I need to be able to do 100% of the content, but it would be nice. I prefer grouping with people, because boxing is a lot of work, but...well, people aren't always around.

    What are your thoughts on berserker over ranger? Track would be nice to have, but is a zerker just so much better than a ranger that it's not worth the trade-off? I thought I read you post elsewhere about war/sha/ran, but I could be wrong. What is the viability of a zerker box if I'm alt+tabbing? I assume ranger would be easier, but I could be wrong there, too.




    I will check it out for sure. I find alt+tab to be really tedious and would love to make boxing easier. It's just so busy and really hard on my wrists to have all the extra key presses.


    Good to know. I'm currently gold on war and sha account, and will likely maintain that; definitely on the warrior. If you had to pick gold to maintain for either shaman or third character, whatever that ends up being, which would you pick?

    Thank you again for taking the time to answer my questions, I really appreciate it. If anyone else wants to give input I would also appreciate it.
  19. Tucoh Augur

    I don't have specific recommends, but post #19 here:
    has some good info from a good warrior.

    No, you are correct it triggers from your healer merc's heals. I'd recommend having at least one healer merc and focusing on using your shaman's DPS abilities and only healing with your shaman as needed.
    With just a shaman's ADPS your warrior's DPS will not drastically improve beyond 60k due to AAs, and I'm guessing the weapons from the GMM mission are as good as you can get from group gear. Improved DPS will likely come from better execution of warrior disciplines (see above link) and utilization of your shaman's DPS abilities.

    I recommend making use of gina to see when malo, turgur's and all your DoTs are active on the mob.
    Rangers make a poor addition to war/sha because while their burst DPS is great, their sustained DPS is poor due to mana issues. Even when playing with a bard (good mana regen) and beastlord pumping them with paragon (excellent mana regen) my ranger constantly goes OOM. Berserkers, on the other hand, have very good endurance efficiency, bring their own self-ADPS and also contribute good ADPS to warriors.
    I wouldn't recommend either ranger or berserker if you are alt-tabbing. Based on your posts I think it is a certainty that once you inner space hooked up you aren't going back to slumming it with alt-tabbing.
    If I had to chose one, I'd pick the new one and get AAs for them / access a broader ranger of gear. Once I got comfortable with them both I'd go f2p on both of them and keep it gold on the warrior. Or just go gold on all 3 and not think about the cost :)
  20. Zinloz New Member

    Won't quote again since I botched it a bit last time:

    Thank you again. I definitely have work to do on both war and sha. When I tank, I often slack on offensive discs, and, as noted, I'm definitely under-utilizing the shaman (a shame since I was DPSing a ton when I was playing enchanter, and know how good they are).

    Didn't think about a healer merc and focus on DPS with shaman. That would free up a ton of my time and allow me to DPS more/use more of my mana on shaman. Will give this a shot soon and see how it goes, particularly utilizing the alliance; didn't even occur to me but sounds great.

    I guess if I end up boxing a zerker then my DPS issues are solved, so doesn't really matter. But, will still work on war/sha to squeeze what I can out of them since I'm leaving a lot on the table. A bit bummed about no track, but it just doesn't sound like a good box option.
    Tucoh likes this.

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