Tuco's Setup (Critique Welcome!)

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Tucoh, May 6, 2017.

  1. Pirlo Augur

    That's an impressive bunch, I bet your melee output is off the charts with all the epics and synergy.

    Are you also 'dumpstering' trash in less than 10 seconds? (and Tucoh is right, something doing that is rewarding lol)
    P.S. Now I'm thinking about running 2 bards /sigh
    code-zero likes this.
  2. IblisTheMage Augur

  3. NeverPayForLag Augur

    I always forgot the Alliance spells because I have thrown that in the raiders and 12group pot. These spells are somehow making a pure single class crew into a monster. No wonder that a mixed up group is a good deal less DPS.

    Started to work a bit with that. Thanks to the advice here - that makes the healing a good deal different.
    code-zero likes this.
  4. Tucoh Augur

  5. took2summit11 Augur

    Tucoh do you have a magelo set up for your warrior? Would love to see the stats of a properly group geared tank.
  6. Tucoh Augur

    No, but if you look at my vids you can see what my HP is, which is a pretty good barometer.

  7. took2summit11 Augur

    311k HP nice..I can get to around 295k with sum+cler in group so I guess I’m not too far behind.

    I just wanted to say I just rewatched your trial of ash video after trying this thing about 5-10 times this weekend. I think you don’t appreciate how well your team is! I am very impressed. Even if you feel you do not play these characters to their max potential, you absolutely sh*t on every 1 boxed person I’ve grouped with. The rate at which you kill the adds and the named drops is simply amazing. I tried this over the weekend with a raid geared cleric, my paladin, and 4 raid gear dps and we were killing things about 1/3rd as fast as your team does. This tells me that the person in the chair is absolutely the most important thing and not the gear. My question now is, WTF were these 4 raid geared dps people in the group doing? We ultimately got over ran because our dps was sooo poor. We got the first named down to 65% for him to despawn in the time it took you to complete the entire mission. I can now understand the complaints of most people on the content. From here on out I don’t give a crap if people say raid gear or group gear, it is 100% how the character is played. I think people have put such an emphasis on gear for so long, they have forgotten how to play. Anyone that is struggling to do this with raid gear needs to take a look in the mirror, or watch this video.
  8. Tucoh Augur

    In their defense, EQ DPS, like tanking, is all about buff timing/synchronization, which means that to properly DPS you need manually activate everything based on when you get ADPS buffs (and when you need to burn during a fight). So it's really easy to slack off on unimportant fights because it's easier to just run up and hit whatever buttons you're used to spamming and not hit the big DPS buffs that you usually wait until you get a shaman/bard epic, beast dicho, ranger auspice/cheetah fang whatever.

    All my stuff is simplified where I have one big burn button I hit when I need to, and everything else is just constantly spammed. So it's easy for me to just spam buttons and reach 50-75% efficacy even if I know I won't ever hit 100% efficacy that way.

    That being said if you're getting overrun or doing a tough fight (like any of the trials) then obviously everyone should pay attention. An important task of motivated players like yourself is to use gamparse to figure out what the hell your berserker is doing because it sure isn't putting out the DPS they should be. You can pop open a log in Gamparse, see that they aren't even using their dissident rage and ask them about it. They might say something dumb like, "I don't have axes" and "we're still killing things right?" and then you smile and write their name on the list of people who will only hold you back. But they might also say, "What is dissident rage?" and you can saunter on to the progressive spell vendor and blow their mind next time they burn and do this:
  9. took2summit11 Augur

    Your comment about gameparse is something I’m actively looking into. I attempted to download it over the weekend but ultimately decided it was in my “too hard” pile at the moment. I am good at click buttons in EQ but my tech skills stop there. It took me about 4 hours to properly install java to set up my magelo. Gameparse looks like it’s several notches above that. But you are absolutely right this program would easily help me solve who is dead weight and is something I need to just spend an evening to set up and get going.
  10. Tucoh Augur

    It's an invaluable tool to learning how to play EQ. But it's also broken at the moment :D Beimeth is working hard on fixing it.
    code-zero likes this.
  11. Aurastrider Augur

    First off Tucoh is in a class of his own when it comes to boxing. Most boxers would love to even be in the same realm as him. In terms of dps its all about coordination a lot of times knowing what stacks and does not stack, when to activate and keeping everyone informed. When you box you already have all of this stuff covered hopefully so when you do a group burn one character is not wasting an ability already covered by another character. For example I run 4 mages with my SK. My mages rotate through their alliance spells. I also have 4 burns total for each mage. When I do my first burn mage 1 will activate burn A, mage 2 burn b, mage 3 burn c and mage 4 burn d. The next time I do a burn mage 1 will do burn b, mage 2 burn c, mage 3 burn d and mage 4 burn A. This trend follows because in each burn there are swarm pets associated with it which helps my volley spells and having swarm pets up with each burn but not so many as to be a "waste" is crucial for my sustained dps. Multiboxers can accomplish things like this with some time and research that a lot of PUGs just cant accomplish in a short period of time which is what I imagine happened in your group.

    I have found few PUGs that work well doing this regardless of being group geared or raid geared. This is why during raids classes will figure out their rotations for discs and such beforehand, make a hotkey such as xyz is active Joe you are up next. When the ability timer runs out Joe will burn his and alert the next person to get ready and so on down the line. Having everyone just do their own thing in a group without communication often results in poor results.
  12. NeverPayForLag Augur

    Sounds more like high-performance sport than game :p
  13. Tucoh Augur

    What's the difference?
    Metanis likes this.
  14. NeverPayForLag Augur

    yep, exactly that is the difference of everybodies point of view :p

    For the one it is the goal, for the others it is the way.
    For the one it is the competition, for the others it is the relaxation.
    For the one it is the win, for the others it is the experience.
  15. took2summit11 Augur

    Absolutely, I just didn’t understand the gravity of the situation until Tucoh posted his ash trial video. It is shocking to me that his group geared team can out dps the raid geared team (all raid geared except me group geared pal) by a factor of 2 or 3 simply by timing everything properly (or even using them at all, I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the people in my group were just auto attacking).

    NeverPayForLag..the problem..if you want to call it that..is that the devs have implemented all these burns and abilities and now have to gear content towards them. If Tucoh can utilize all the mechanics the devs have made and out dps a raid geared group by a factor of 2 or 3, then the devs must tune the content towards what abilities and burns THEY have created. So calling it sport or game or whatever doesn’t really matter. The fact is, the devs have spent years creating all these synergies, and are now tuning content towards us, the players, using them properly. If we fail to use them and say this is no longer a game, and it is now a sport, then it is our fault, not theirs. Meanwhile the community complains there aren’t MORE (likely complex) AAs added every expansion when they very likely aren’t utilizing what’s already been given to them.

    I am not basing these comments off the 1 group I was in. Of the 3 weeks I’ve spent in TBL now you can know very quickly how good the group is, and it has nothing to do with gear. I have been in group geared groups that slaughter the content, and like I mentioned above, I’ve been in raid geared groups that just simply fall flat.
  16. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Augur

    This is spot-on.

    In my view, boxing lends itself to learning more about cooperation and capitalizing on class synergies than non-boxing does. This isn't because people don't want to get better. It's because their access to other classes at endgame are limited to PUGs and raids. Seeing an expert non-boxer who is an absolute master of their class at work is truly a sight to see. Seeing boxers such as Aurastrider and Tucoh at work inspire me to do better.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  17. Aurastrider Augur

    Its a virtual sport in a sorts. Sure you can play solo like darts, or be the coach (boxing), or you can be part of a team. The later two involve communication to be successful and always have. For boxing you are doing a lot of "internal" communication (I just activated alliance on toon 1, toon 2 you are up next, now toon 3 you are up....) which not only takes a lot of mental energy but a lot of muscle memory and focus as one missed keystroke or mistake could result in a wipe. For the group game its no different than any team sport. Can you imagine watching a football game where the QB just walks up to the line, the center snaps the ball and the offensive weapons all just do their own thing? The RB has no clue if he is taking the handoff or blocking, the WR's run their own routes and hope they don't end up in the same spot not to mention hope the QB guesses what route they are running so they can deliver the ball on time. The offensive lineman don't know if they should be run blocking which would place them down field resulting in a penalty should the QB throw the ball or pass blocking which would result in the RB getting destroyed as soon as they get near the line.

    This is how a poorly coordinated group works from my experience. I have been in groups with multiple people trying to pull. Priests both deciding they would rather dps than heal. Players off looting corpses instead of killing. Players just going afk without any warning and magically appearing at the end of a mission. I have also been in some amazing groups most of which were people that I grouped with on a regular basis, we all knew each others strengths and weaknesses, when my tank would tell me to burn I knew he was ready for me to push him for agro, my healer was ready to spot heal me in the event that I did jack it, and our puller was moving at lightning speed. Its very difficult to replicate a great group boxing but it is very easy to box a great group and make a bad group look really bad.
  18. Ecchicon Elder

    The thing is that this is painfully obvious to so many EQ players. That is why a handful of people are insisting that this content is not overturned; when you play your characters correctly in response to group makeup and encounter mechanics, the events become a far different experience. Trust me when I say that plenty of decent guilds are full of player-fodder that are frustrating to group with in even the most trivial content.

    And I want to reiterate that there isn’t all that much that Tucoh does that every single person playing the game can do (when working with other players) if they’d only research their abilities and communicate with their group. If anyone is “surprised” by this burn DPS, they need to simply say to themselves “maybe I can do better” and put in the relatively small amount of work to get better at the game.

    It really isn’t a bunch of elite players in uber gear coming here to troll a bunch of honest players with good intentions. Many of the best EQ players want nothing more than to be playing alongside better players. There are lots of tools out there that can help you do better, so just start looking at them rather than making inane excuses.
    code-zero likes this.
  19. NeverPayForLag Augur

    A handful of players... yes.. this game is made for this handful of players...:confused:

    Sorry, but what you completely forget is that the game meanwhile since first start has turned completely in a very complex game, if people - or the socalled elite players - optimize it to the bone. That such a gap is present is not surprising. Again it is a matter of time. While EQ was once simple, the possibility of interaction with all classes are meanwhile extreme complex, if you take into account, that you need to know every class and its effect on other classes and even calculate the casting time over different classes and different people in the group. That may be something for raiders - but even in my raid times that was not the case - is that meanwhile so? Then I am happy that I don't play the raiders game anymore. Sadly it seems it shifts into the group game.

    But as always if somebody has the practice then it is easy - the only difference is to really recognize that. But what I call arrogancy is to expect that for an expansion somebody has to play like peeps who spent their main life in this game... sorry bud... if that is the expansion reason then please - warning sign - only for "elite" players - everything else is simply riding on a really high horse.

    Some have even problems with installing and bringing 3rd party tools to work, even Gina or Gameparse is not complicated. I may not have a problem with that, but to expect somebody to play a game and invest additional time in other things without the product saying so - you are then so far away from customer protection services and real good products.

    That means EQ is only a game meanwhile for complete NERDS. That is the reason why I always activate in the survey that I cannot really recommend this game to anybody who is not complete nerdy with a special type of game.

    And I don't think about the Nerds in this forum, I think about the thousands of players out there. Obviously EQ is not dead and 4000+ lifetimeships have been sold. But I see a horrific little amount of people in the zones of the new expansion. Especially at christmas the zones are normally full with people - not so here. This is a sign for itself...

    If this selfishness influences the devs then people like you deserve that EQ goes down with your high horse... :confused: but we are lucky that enough here are complaining and this will got tuned down - else you will not see many players for a year...

    I would like to see more players in EQ...
  20. code-zero Augur

    This is pathetic. EQ is a game that has to be PLAYED. One doesn't need to go far into this forum to find people complaining about EQ not being hard or not comparable to "real" games or "epic" or some other BS but of course that pre-TBL. Now we have this sort of garbage whining about people needing to actually learn and play the game.

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