Truebox is increasingly unfair.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Strawberry, Feb 26, 2019.

  1. Strawberry Augur

    You are basically creating TLP servers where half the population is using 3rd party programs to circumvent boxing rules and is boxing on a single PC or using broadcasting software.

    And the other half of the population that plays by the rules, who is even more at a disadvantage than on regular servers.

    This isn't right, it's even more unfair than on regular servers.

    And you as developers are stimulating these programs, because you keep fueling it with krono which means players are profitting from boxing, which means they have money to buy the 3rd party programs and hacks, which means developers create more hacks, etc. You are creating this.

    I remember years ago that I pointed out boxing was becoming a major problem in EQ (around when Rashere was leading EQ). I suggested multiple times that gameplay should be adjusted to discourage boxing, but nothing happened.

    The amount of 'traffic' these 3rd party programs are getting on Youtube and on some sites, is not good.

    You're creating a situation that is very unfair for people who play by the rules.
  2. PwnQuest Augur

    Saying that half the population is bypassing trueboxing is dramatically overstating things. I doubt that close to half of the server population even 2 boxes.

    I don't necessarily disagree with you, but the solution is to detect and ban those who try to bypass the rules, not to remove trueboxing and make it the wild west like Ragefire which was a disaster of a server.
  3. yukan Augur

    There's plenty of room on Ragefire for anyone who wants to catch up.
    Kattria Minx and Lowlife like this.
  4. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    A lot to unpack with this complaint post!

    Do you have any evidence that anywhere close to half the population is circumventing the boxing restrictions on any current TLP's? In my experience there's definitely a few people doing it, but my subjective guess would be closer to 10-15% of the population. What's your evidence of this claim? It would be a stretch to say that 50% of the population is even boxing at all, let alone bypassing truebox restrictions to do so. Additionally, broadcasting software, which is part of your complaint, is certainly way more prevalent on non-truebox servers. There's no arguing with that.
    This has probably been explained on this forum more times than there are TLP wishlist threads, but sure, I'll explain it again! EverQuest has always had and will always continue to have a RMT component. The addition of Krono simply pulls these transactions partially out of the black market, adding a layer of consumer protection to those that choose to participate in them - that's both sides of the transaction, buyers and sellers. Krono also gives Daybreak a cut of the profits, whereas in the pre-Krono days the entire RMT economy was out of their hands. There are literally no downsides to the existence of Krono, period.
    Nothing happened? Did you miss the dozens of threads when the newest expansion released a few months ago? Complaints about the content being "un-boxable" and requiring actual full groups of players with balanced class distributions? Some players claiming the content was literally impossible for group geared players, let alone someone boxing them. Those claims were of course disproven, but it still shows an effort by the design team to make things more complex, and more difficult for a 6 boxer to just steamroll with his evil broadcasting software.

    Don't get me wrong - I've seen the new hack programs, and I do hope they are actively watching for people using them and banning them. But blaming the devs and the truebox environment for creating the issue in the first place is nonsense. There will always be a minority of players looking to get ahead of the curve using any means necessary, whether against the rules or not.
    Pirlo likes this.
  5. Machentoo Augur


    Pretty clearly they did make some adjustments. If you've ever done progression from, say, VoA onward with a six box crew, there are some parts that are pretty miserable to box--missions that are extremely challenging, and a lot of stuff that is just incredibly tedious to have to do six times over. Which I am fine with, as annoying as it is. It would be difficult or impossible for them to work such things back into the earlier expansions of the TLP's though.


    This is exactly how people throw in the towel and begin using software, too. When you look around, everyone is doing it, they are getting major advantages from doing it, and nothing is being done to prevent them from doing it or punish those who are breaking the rules, it doesn't take too long before more and more people are thinking about crossing that line themselves.
    Elonia and Hateseeker like this.
  6. Umul Augur

    On which server is OP referring to?
  7. Maligannt Journeyman

    I'd take fighting Truebox 3 - 6box crews any day over what can be done if they take out the Truebox requirement. Even the threat that a guy with 30+ accounts eating Krono is going to get them banned is enough to keep them off Truebox, and of course the agreement they have with the developer of that program which shall not be mentioned.
  8. Hateseeker Augur

    Isn't software assisted boxing often given away by how close characters autofollow compared to using in-game autofollow? It definitely seems like a trained GM could rather easily figure it out with a little observation, but that would require having manpower to enforce which I guess has been incompatible with cost cutting for a while now.

    But as to the last part, if we admit that software users are being allowed to run wild then it only naturally follows that the 2 and 3 boxers who try to play by the rules, and who still group and just want to have a cleric/slower handy, are being inconvenienced for little ultimate benefit, since the people who are 100% truly anti-boxing, are not in any way receiving anything close to a no boxing server. They're only receiving a server where the wicked still do their thing and those in the middle suffer.

    Ragefire was the wild west because it was one of the last servers where Daybreak was resisting AoC implementation.
    15% sounds significant to me. Of course, even if it's not, all truebox servers have AoCs, so the raid side of the game is not affected by having or not having truebox, so removing truebox wouldn't harm raiding. As for group, I find it amazing that even load balancing is not enough to provide enough content. I guess that's just because of how early EQ content was designed, in some cases just a few zones appropriate for a certain level range and each zone limited in scope of content. Example, Sol B's non-raid areas can be completely locked down by just 2 groups, yet doesn't it take a lot more than 2 groups to open a new pick? Maybe truebox restrictions should fall off after Luclin comes out. Certainly after DoN when even group missions start to become private instances.
  9. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    Removing Truebox with Luclin or PoP launch would be too early as there's still plenty of open world raid content to fight over. But I do agree removing it around OoW/DoN era would make good sense. Usually the major Krono farmer types have already moved on from TLP servers by then, and now that they've instanced Master Vule and Relic, there's really no relevant open world raids to contend over after GoD.
  10. Hateseeker Augur

    On AoC servers? I haven't played on any truebox servers, is this comment because there's some raid stuff that doesn't get AoC?

    Yes, it's because I would 2-3 box and don't want to have to use 3rd party programs OR set up multiple boxes and keypads. I'm sure it's easy and I'm sure I could get used to it but I wouldn't enjoy it, either for play or for what it would do to my gaming space.
  11. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    The stuff is instanced in AoC's, but it also spawns open world much more frequently than your DZ lockout timers refresh. So a lot of folks still aim to take down the highest end targets in the open world ASAP when they spawn - stuff like Vex Thal bosses and elemental gods are batphoned immediately even on AoC servers. Removing the Truebox restriction would encourage giant box armies (a la early Ragefire server) to monopolize these open world spawns.
  12. Machentoo Augur

    There is also a little content that never got AoC treatment. King and Queen in RSS come to mind.
  13. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    There would be no need for TrueBox if the devs allowed private /picks. Nobody would care if there were 30+ box crews running around if players could have their own zones where other players couldn't steal their camps and otherwise grief them.

    DBG has the technology for the solution, but choose not to use it. Ask them why.
    Risiko likes this.
  14. code-zero Augur

    So many screwball conspiracy theories here

    1. Krono are doing exactly what they wanted Krono to do

    2. Defeating Truebox code isn't as easy peazy as some want to pretend it is and the methods used will get perma bans on any account caught doing it

    3. Most important, if you log on thinking that <x>% of every character you see then that becomes your truth and there's noting that DBG can to to fix that for you
    Nessirfiti and Dythan like this.
  15. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    Talk about screwball conspiracy theories. When has anybody received a perma ban for this (or almost anything)? If you have evidence, please share :)

    DBG doesn't police any of this stuff, they don't have the resources. And if they did, why would they perma ban their biggest customers?
  16. Iyvy Augur

    I've been saying for a while that a limit is the way to go.

    To be honest a two toon limit would be fine by me, and most people.

    It would also be way way way easier to eyeball.

    Group of 5 mages following one guy. Two seconds to eyeball it then permaban them.

    You'd need to spend like 5 man hours a month to ban hundreds of accounts with hundreds of krono.


    If anything it would be worth it to police it, removing so much kr from the game. Not sure how much business they'd lose though.
  17. Stagentti Augur

    Dig up the post where they explained why the threshold for a pick to stay open was increased a while back.

    There's your answer about why they don't.
  18. code-zero Augur

    Actually they do give an immediate and non-reversible permanent ban when they catch people doing that. The vast majority of the people catching that aren't the sort to be coming to the forums complaining about it.
  19. Accipiter Old Timer


    Hyperbole much?

    There really wasn't any reason to read beyond the first sentence.
  20. Accipiter Old Timer


    It doesn't matter. He's full of it. There are a few names you'll recognize if you hang out here long enough.

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