Tribute / Luck are Bad for EQ

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Cloud the Third, Jun 5, 2023.

  1. Vumad Cape Wearer

    I play a mage in groups. I understand the situation.
  2. Fanra

    I agree (now that you told me) that there are many benefits to having lots of swarm pets up. It just makes the job of reducing them harder, not impossible.

    As I originally posted, years ago when they started this it was obvious (except to SOE) that adding more swarm pets was bad. So they should have come up with another way to give increased dps, etc. to mages and pet classes (never mind every single class, except perhaps 1 or 2, now has swarm pets. Even Monks have swarm pets!).

    If they wanted to tackle this now, they still can, it's just a lot harder to do than it would have been to never go down that road in the first place.


    Speaking of procs, my druid has something like six or seven procs that can go off every time they cast a damaging spell. Instead of items and augmentations including a damaging spell proc, they should instead add damage to my spells cast.

    Using procs to increase damage is a bad idea, because every proc is a spell which the server has to calculate:
    • Did the chance to proc roll the random number to proc?
    • Is the mob in range?
    • Is the mob in line of sight?
    • Is the mob immune?
    • Did the mob resist this?
    • Did the spell crit?
    • Did Luck go off?
    • Did the spell twincast?
    • If landed on the mob, now add all the many bonuses to damage I have (if they count, not sure if they do to proc'ed spells)
    • Calculate the damage
    • Apply the damage to the mob
    • Send messages to the player about the success/failure of the proc
    • Possibly other things
    Instead those items and augmentations I have should just increase the base damage of my damaging spells, rather than have a chance to proc another spell.
    Svann2 and strongbus like this.
  3. Leex Pewpewer

    A lot of things can be updated, or changed. We don't generally see a lot of that for the benefit of the player base though, do we?

    Making a comment regarding a potential but very unlikely possibility is really helpful Waring, thanks for always being you on here.

    And to just touch on the specific spell in question, the devs did change the requirements. They made the pet requirement higher.
  4. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Refusing to consider changing something that is admitted to have a large impact on lag because of the impact on other things isn't helpful. Pets, especially swarm pets have a decent impact on the lag during events and the refusal to consider changing it because of other abilities that are impacted by the number of pets is just silly. The various abilities that improve based on the number of pets should be reviewed and have the numbers adjusted downward so that the quantity of swarm pets produced can be reduced which should help reduce lag.

    Finding ways to reduce lag will easily benefit the players.
  5. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    If they removed everything complained about in the forum we would be logging in to nothing. No game nothing.
    Sixth_Sense and Rijacki like this.
  6. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    And are there any drops you need that you hope someone will give to you? Sorry but its very easy to max tribute AND give things away if you wish to give things away. So tribute isn't to blame.

    What I don't understand is threads like this and say the thunder one where someone wanted thunder sounds removed from the game. These folks never seem to think about the people who like those things. What is it about forums that cause some folks to ONLY see things from their own viewpoint?
    Rijacki likes this.
  7. strongbus Augur

    easy way to handle the of many lines for mages. they made dots that work different on different types of mobs. necros for example have dots that do different base damage to undead mobs then a non undead mob when cast.

    just change the of many spells so that on raid mobs 1. it takes fewer pets to trigger. 2. make it so the only swarm pets it counts is the mages. on a normal raid between bst/mages/necro/sk/sham/ench we got a good 15+ non swarm pets. just have it count the mage servant swarm pet as well and no other swarm pets.
  8. Syylke_EMarr Augur

    My own random idea on how to adjust the "of Many" line to accommodate changes to swarm pets:
    That being said, wow did this thread get off topic :eek:

    I don't know of anyone that has Fused an item since it was first introduced, just for the novelty of it. And Tribute is just part of the game now. I expect most people keep theirs up with lower expansion stuff; I know I do.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  9. Rijacki Just a rare RPer on FV and Oakwynd

    Back to the original topic of the thread. The issue isn't Luck/Tribute specifically, it's the propensity for most players to always Need on everything for whatever reason they think is appropriate. It's an issue, too, on servers where neither the Luck stat nor Tribute is available yet. It might even be worse on Free Trade servers since almost anything can be sold to another player for plat. Those who don't need the item to equip will argue they need the plat they can sell it for.
  10. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    I think its crazy to try and force people to give things away. Folks will either share or not and lets face it the only people who "deserve" the loot are those that actually kill the namer. Someone sharing there well deserved loot should always be optional and trying to remove any other use for the loot then wearing it is not a good thing in my opinion. I am all for folks offering up loot as long as it is totally voluntary and isn't pushed upon them. And frankly those that don't offer it up are not going to suddenly do it if pushed into doing it.
    Kaenneth likes this.
  11. Svann2 The Magnificent

    For that you make loot rules and make sure everyone understands. If people cheat by needing stuff they dont need you stop grouping with them.

    But thats not what the OP was on about. He wants to be able to stand around and have people offer rots in /general. People do that sometimes, but its pretty annoying the entitlement that thinks people should have to do that.
    FYAD, Rijacki and Kaenneth like this.
  12. Rijacki Just a rare RPer on FV and Oakwynd

    Offering rots in general was always a super-duper rare thing even if it was going to... rot.

    But the need/greed in group is complicated by the Advanced Loot Windows "auto" features. If you auto on everything, after a while the window pops up less and less. BUT changing those filters you've built up from need to greed can be a bit of a task and I get that. It is part of my love/hate relationship with the ALW, the convenience of the auto and not always being in the same types of groups.
  13. Flatchy Court Jester

    Agree to disagree. I think that is one of those cases of that is what I see in my world so that is the way it is everywhere. To me this is exactly what an mmo is about, helping others. I am a firm believer in Karma. Treat others right and they will remember you. again tribute is SO EASY to come by if you know what you are doing there is no need to quibble over trinkets.
    Windance likes this.
  14. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    I agree that it is not super uncommon. Though I see waves and troughs in folks handing out loot. The amount of loot offered to others goes up in a current expansion as it gets older but some folks give out stuff all the time. Part of it depends on how easy it is to get the loot. The biggest factor is drop rate and namer spawn rate.


    Trying to push folks into giving out loots is totally wrong and destroys the whole idea of giving. And most importantly not everyone feels as giving or feels that is the best thing about MMOs and that is fine if they want to be that way. They pay to play too.

    I like giving back to the server I play on and the community I play with. RL concerns keep me from hardcore farming loots to hand out and these days I may be lucky to completely gear up my toons each expansion. A lot of my in game time isn't grinding out namers but I love doing MGB sessions for folks to help them out. If I am in game I am going to do buff sessions. I run a guild that concentrates on returning players and have always taking in folks that need a guild So I get the whole giving part and agree with it BUT not with trying to force folks into it by getting rid of tribute. To me that is a bad thing.
    Rijacki likes this.
  15. Cloud the Third Augur

    Well this is also kind of a problem of almost everything being no drop these days. Back in the early days of EQ classic -> velius and even in luclin most items were droppable and could be sold. The game seems to have reversed these days and everything is commonly no drop and the only things droppable are rare global drops. This isn't a good thing imo. This has led to an insane amount of drops from named mobs and mission but they are all no drop so it isn't a big deal. Back in the day you had people camping named and they only dropped 1 item. Named in NoS drop 2+ items almost every time but they are always no drop.

    This is an online game that is supposed to be built around people interacting with each other but outside blood items nothing that drops is really useful to be sold.

    I don't think everything they have done with loot changes is bad because I do like the fact that armor drops are usable by all classes unlike back in the day where you had rare drops that were only for 1 class so it was sometimes hard to find a group to camp a mob only 1 person could get loot from.

    I do think it would be better for drops to be droppable but alot rarer. Maybe leave 1 armor drop any class can use as no drop from all named but give the mob 1 other item that are only a 25% drop rate but are droppable and maybe all names have a 1% chance to drop for a T1 raid level items similar to blood items giving people a reason to camp certain names instead of just random T1 raid level drop like blood items. I am not a fan of global rare drops because it is random and after days of killing random npc you may get one but it may not be the one you need (there are a ton of rare global drops) would prefer the ability to know which npc to camp for a rare drop.
  16. Captain Video Augur

    It sounds like what you're asking for is a way to apply Mischief loot culture to Live servers. It isn't going to happen. Are you in a guild on a Live server? It certainly doesn't sound like it. I've never known anyone in a raid guild who had a problem getting the drops they needed, so long as you have some basic communication with your guildmates prior to loot distributions. If your problem is getting group-tier gear playing solo for whatever reason, the answer is the grind is part of the game, we all do it. The other alternative is to stay on Mischief.
  17. Sixth_Sense New Member

    I wonder what'll happen when Mischief catches up to live; will it stay it's own thing, or be merged losing the random loot?
  18. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    It will be a regular server. Whether its merged into FV or we have a new free trade live server will be the question.
  19. Captain Video Augur

    There hasn't been an official answer, and I doubt they've made any decision so far. Prior discussions have speculated that the most likely option is a merge into FV, keeping the free trade and ending the random loot. There would be strong objections from some players to the idea of merging multi-year-old free trade characters into a non-free trade server. I suspect a lot depends on what Mischief's final population turns out to be; a healhy pop could keep it going as its own separate ruleset, but I'm personally betting against that.
  20. Cloud the Third Augur

    Does FV have level restriction items still? That would be a cool new server. I would maybe play on if they had one without any level restrictions for entering the zone ask long as you are keyed and you could use the items on a level 1 with no trade restrictions. Level 1 with level 120 raid gear could be fun.