ToV ToFS Raids

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Ashian, Feb 5, 2020.

  1. Cloud the Third Augur

    I will give you no real reason why #3 has prerequisite. However the other 3 do have very good reasons for having prerequisite. ToFS is run by Tserrina so walking into her castle and killing her while the rest of the zone sits there and does nothing makes no sense. It also makes sense for requiring Derakor to be dead before AoW will take you on as a challenge because he is kinda like his body guard.
  2. Tucoh Augur

    Sure, but there are lots of ways to autotune. Mob damage or mob hp is just one of them. Could also do mob timers, buff durations etc. Maybe it's a dumb idea, I dunno, but an MMO without a challenging content means there is no real reason to perfect your character and improve your raid's lethality.

    It's why I'm not even bothering with the ToV chase item: no point if I'm probably going to roll over whatever content comes next without trying.
    Daedly likes this.
  3. Sancus Augur

    I'm not sure I understand the problem you're trying to address with "autotun[ing]." If you're solving the conceptual issue of "How do we make raids difficult, while still allowing mid/lower tier guilds to eventually complete them?" then autotuning has some promise.

    If you're trying to salvage the higher tier ToV raids to be a challenge to guilds like mine, the primary issue is mechanical; autotuning/bigger numbers aren't going to redeem the design of those raids.
    Tucoh likes this.
  4. Whulfgar Augur

    If you are on a server with very limited population, and in a guild that can not sufficently support its own with out boxing .. an again thats entirely due to very low population.

    You have options. One being transfure to a new healthier population wise server .. Two being change your guild system in such a way as to actually be able to recruit from other servers to your server / guild.

    I've never understood that whole Im in a lower guild an we cant beat anything .. but instead of doing a single thing to improve the situation, they would rather stay where they are (again to their own detriment ..) rather then say server transfer to another healthier server ..

    Also no Dev's have openly stated multiple times there is no GROUP level progression. They in fact as far as I know never said there would not be "raid progression" Matter of fact they openly stated Multiple times.. Tier one will open launch .. Tier two will be 1 month later, Tier 3 will be month after that .. which very much indicates Raid progression..

    I am very curious where you got the "no raid progression" was stated by the devs at ? Could you show us ?
  5. smash Augur

    Do not see any reason at all for them to change things.

    Raids which are in 1 instance, need to be done in certain order, so you dont cherry pick those you wanna do and those that you dont wanna do.

    And finally to the devs, in next expansion plz give us progression back. This expansion been boring without it.
  6. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    but sancus, that's exactly how it was in beta =P.
  7. Tyreel Augur

    Beta was open to everyone even your guild could have beta tested and seen this issue when it was much more likely to be changed. Keep asking for the change going forward.

    Asking for a partial rewrite of the script of raid zones on events that are already past beta and not malfunctioning is a REALLY HARD ASK. It is not a simple just move Events X Y Z to their own raid zone, one typo in the original/new scripts and the whole game could lose an event or multiple events for a month(s) or more waiting on next patch. Damage is done to this expansion, advocate for expansions/bonus content going forward.

    Your guild is compounding the difficulty of ToFS 1 by boxing no matter what... that is fine but if you can't manage the event go farm your whole raid TBL/GMM/ToVt1 gear to avoid compounding it again with lack of gear. At the end of beta ToFS 1 was easiest it had been all beta especially if your guild has decent range dps.
  8. Ashian Augur

    Running out of steam trying to help you understand, so I am only going to address this part. But you’re crazy if you think our guild hasn’t been trying to do something about the situation. And, again, I don’t think asking our guild to server transfer at the hopes of getting fresh members is the answer.

    Anyways, quote from Dev Narlee (?) on the forums:

  9. Tyreel Augur

    (...)You will not need to complete any previous tier raid content prior to attempting the next tier once it is unlocked.”

    It doesn't say previous raid it says previous tier. Tier 2 is not locked behind Tier 1. Tier 3 is not locked behind Tier 2 or 1.
    ToFS raids are all part of Tier 2 they are not part of a previous tier they are raids 4 5 6 and tier 2.Can argue semantics or intentions all year long but the devs did what they said they would. If you want it done differently put the energy in to advocating for every raid in an individual instance/any order in an instance going forward.
  10. Whulfgar Augur

    Looks like Tyreel.. already responded to show where your understanding took a slight curve away from what dev's actually stated.

    Zero quests or missions required for requesting any tier of raids.

    Is not the same as zero raid progression..
  11. Ashian Augur

    Yes, I agree. The way in which it is implemented is consistent with the messaging from the Dev during beta. I don’t argue that one bit, hence why I even posted the dev’s message. I’m not arguing that the implementation is bugged or inconsistent. I’m asking for a change.

    Per Tyreel’s comment above about the feasibility of making each raid “standalone,” I don’t believe this would be as hard as some folks imagine. Currently when someone has a lockout timer for Griklor and requests the EW raid, it skips right to the part of the event where Griklor is complete and the Sleeper is available. Only the developers know, but I suspect it might be possible to utilize the same mechanic to request ToFS #2 or #3 and skip directly to that part of the event.
  12. Whulfgar Augur

    So allow me a question.

    What guild are you in or at least what server ? An what changes can you guys make to help drive in more recruits rather then changing the entire raid land scape to suit your guild ?
  13. Ashian Augur

    Vox. The server hasn’t had a raid force doing current content in 3+ years. We started early last year with a raid force struggling to beat Droga (yes, struggling in Droga during TBL era). After months and months of flagging through EoK and farming Gorowyn, we were finally able to break through and accelerate our gear by taking down all of RoS T1 and event #1 in Sathir’s Tomb (during TBL). Before ToV launched, we were farming Stratos and Rustbottom but unable to do other raids in TBL. Now, over a year later, we are one-shoting Griklor and Restless Assault and working on The Sleeper. We are nearly done flagging for T3 TBL (1 more week) to see if we are able to take on The Palace Gates because Mearatas is off the table. It would be nice to be able to have a shot at the ToFS raids even if we ultimately can’t beat them.

    The collective efforts of dozens of dedicated players has led to a revitalization of the server and slowed the bleeding of talented players to more developed raiding servers. Subscriptions are up as people have created, leveled, AAd, geared, auged, and otherwise pumped tremendous efforts into boxes to beat content. We care a lot about the server and want to keep it healthy — maintaining a motivated and effective raid force is one of the ways to do that.
    enclee likes this.
  14. Sancus Augur

    This is such a weird thread.

    Unfortunately the beta forums are no longer available, but Absor's answer on beta was that he hadn't considered making them nonliner. He then said that it took time to change, and didn't make a ton of sense lore-wise to go out of order, so he was leaving it as-is.

    It wasn't a hard "no," nor was he opposed to the idea design-wise beyond lore constraints. I think it's reasonable to request a change, and we don't know as players how much time it would actually take. At the very least I think it's something they should consider in the future given non-linearity as a way to promote accessibility was clearly one of their goals.

    As an aside, I do think guilds that can't get past ToFS 1 because of the movement requirements will be able to do Derakor and Velks if their tuning is the same as it was on beta.
    Yinla, enclee and Ashian like this.
  15. Whulfgar Augur

    So next question becomes .. why not tackle older raid content until EVERY ONE .. in the raid force is geared ..

    Then move to the next expansions raids .. so on an so forth ?

    Why is it you guys only gear the tanks .. then move on? That is VERY VERY counter productive.
  16. Derka Power Ranger

    That is pretty much what we did as he stated by farming EoK and RoS religiously before being able to squeeze a little loot out of stratos raid. Not all servers have the luxury of 54 competent players spread out in perfect class distribution for raiding. Throw in guild politics and it becomes more of a complicated situation, hence the large amount boxes on raids. I don't raid anymore with that crew so cannot speak for the current state of their situation but Ashian has summed it up pretty well in his posts.
  17. Ashian Augur

    As Derka mentioned above, that is precisely right. I can't tell you how many times we ran Gorowyn for diamonds and loot. It took us 6 months before we could even beat Stratos and 3-4 months before we could take down Cactiki. Up until ToV launch we had about 12 TBL lamps and 24 pieces of armor across the entire guild, minus the people who ended up leaving the server, stopped raiding, or quit the game.

    Based on our current rotation, we beat 3 TBL raids and 2 ToV raids a week, which equals about one set of gear per character per week. Given the way EQ works, the obvious choice is to give the best gear and the most gear to the tanks first. The rest of the characters aren't ignored, but a mage only really needs a pet earring, arms, maybe a helm, and any raid legs to be near maximum efficiency. Just see Sancus' (or maybe Kizant's) post in the caster forums about the DPS difference between a raid gear mage/wizard and a group geared one. It's minimal.

    Regardless of the above, our problem is not gear. Gear helps, but if your raid force cannot do the movement requirements, gear is not going to save you. Sathir's Tomb #2 is the perfect example. We have way better gear than during RoS, but we lack the diversity of damage type (cold damage) and the ability to move around the room quickly. Despite beating Reparm, Stratos, Ralaifin, and Griklor, we cannot seem to beat this raid. Sancus made the point above that it isn't damage output that challenges RoI, it is mechanics. The same is true for us, but at a much more amateur scale.
    Sancus likes this.
  18. Whulfgar Augur

    The fact that yall have drama in that small of a guild instead of banding that much closer is in an of itself.. a massive massive massive hold back..

    Never mind the difficulty of the raids in Tov ..
  19. Whulfgar Augur

    So why stop hitting TBL / RoS raids ?

    Keep doing them to gear the REST of everyone in the raids .. Thats the whole point..

    If you can not beat / down the newest content .. Go back until you are in content your force is capable of doing an farm it until everyone has all they need then move on.

    Clearly in your earlier posts you indicated only the tanks got fully geared .. That is a bad bad strat .. GEAR everyone .. then move on..

    Why are you guys not doing that ?
  20. Derka Power Ranger

    I agree it was a massive hold back which ultimately ended in the fracturing of the largest guild for years into 3 (1 raiding, 1 semi raiding and 1 family grouping) human nature to go after what you want. Some key DPS was lost (at least 3 of the top 10) so what Ashian means about the few pieces of DPS upgrade loot went away. I myself am using the bow currently but had to go on a raiding hiatus due to a new addition to family. The reasoning behind tanks getting priority along with appropriate weapon upgrades for DPS is because DPS was still low which leads to longer fights. Longer fights = more stress on tanks and healers. And as for mechanic difficulties with multiboxing due to lack of good players or people that really are just bad at mechanics, that's another hurdle. Big guilds can bench people that suck at mechanics, when you're struggling for attendance you dont really have that option. The raiding is picking back up on the server and will continue to as Spring comes with people getting further ToV upgrades but gear only takes you so far and when a lot of players dont ever just "git gud" even with extensive guides provided or coaching this is how you raid.