ToV Pally

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Fistix, Nov 3, 2020.

  1. Fistix New Member

    I am working on making a paladin and I wanted to know what to expect in ToV group content once I was 115. What spell lineups or AAs will be the most beneficial with the large population of undead mobs? I have read quite a few older posts, but wanted to see what might be used more frequently in ToV content. The paladin would be my MT and ToV group geared.
  2. aozs Elder

    What group composition? Is it a boxing setup or group of actual players?

    I think the biggest thing will be to just max out Slay Undead and run your 2hander as much as possible. Spell lineup mostly adjusts survivability and agro generation, so the "best" spell lineup will probably depend on how your group operates. Note that a lot of ToV mobs are stunnable so that can help with survivability.

    I just reached 115 with my paladin-led crew (pal/brd/shm/bst/rng/mnk) and run a simple 3-spell multibind with target-of-target heals, Remonstrate > Protective Consecration > Valiant Diversion. It works well enough since I don't have agro issues and don't need stuns to survive. I also keep Splash loaded to clean Restless Ice and other debuffs, as well as short-term buffs (Concordant, Preservation, Stance)
  3. Fistix New Member

    Thanks for the feedback aozs. I will take your advice on the ToV mobs. I usually play with pickup groups so sometimes have to depend on a merc healer so I have to balance tanking/heals/dps - the Paladin life.
  4. Kleitus_Xegony Augur

    My current spell line-up for most ToV group stuff is:
    • Concordant Blessing
    • Preservation of the Grotto
    • Sincere Light
    • Sincere Touch
    • Wave of Propitiation
    • Protest for Honor
    • Fervant Audacity
    • Brilliant Exculpation
    • Remonstrate
    • Requiem
    • Doctrine of Abolishment
    • Remembrance
    • Doctrine of Exculpation
    I have it setup so hitting the 'z' key cycles through the bottom 6 spells. I also have a 5 line macro that casts Disruptive Persecution followed by the last 4 spells - no delays though so it casts whichever one of those 5 things is up in order. This is also on the 1st hotbar in key slot 3.

    This allows me to cycle through the bottom 6 spells non-stop and I can also use the hotkey to cast Disruptive Persecution. I didn't put Vanquish the Fallen in the macro because it takes too long to refresh but that could be done too. That way, my index finger is on "3" and my thumb is on "z" and I can cycle through them both really fast. Why two keys like this? I just swap out the bottom 4 spells if I need stuns. Or the top 2 spells (of the bottom 6) if I need Crushes or Valiant Diversion & Protective Consecration.

    I use Fervant Audacity and Protest for Honor on mobs as they're incoming or just Protest for Honor as I swap targets. They're not necessary though since we can cycle through Beacon of Righteousness, Hallowed Loadstar, and Heroic Leap often enough to keep aggro as mobs are pulled in. Divine Call is annoying since the 2nd tick of it pulls the mob to exactly on top of you and you have to backup a step to keep attacking it. But using it plus Ageless Enmity and Unending Affirmation along with crappy normal taunt works well for single target aggro. I rarely use Projection of Piety, but sometimes it's handy if something is rooted outside of our AE aggro range which is short on all of our abilities. The other thing I spam is Thwart. It's always on cool-down since there's no downside to using it.

    I always keep Concordant Blessing and Preservation of the Grotto on me. I'm not a huge fan of Renewing Steel because of the proc limit - seems too short for me. I tend not to need the burst heals, or the big self-only heals in the group game. Those would get swapped into the early part of my spell lineup in place of the Sincere Light / Touch if I were going to use them. Same with extra group heals since I just use Gift of Life, Hand of Piety and Reflexive Reverence instead. Those 3 abilities plus Lay Hands usually covers most of my emergency healing needs.

    So I have autoattack as '1', thwart as '2', the macro as '3', assist key as '4' and the 6 spell spam key as 'z'. I can keep all 6 spells, Disruptive Persecution and Thwart on a perpetual cycle and almost all of them on cool-down non-stop. Plus easy to turn on-off autoattack and swap targets to follow a main assist in group/raid as needed. I know you didn't ask for the other stuff, but I figured it was worth mentioning for others that might read something like this and wonder how / why some people can keep up with a massive number of spell casts / min compared to others who struggle to come anywhere close. It's all about the spam keys for casting spells / AAs and having an easy (for them) layout to use these keys.
  5. Kleitus_Xegony Augur

    I would suggest adding Disruptive Persecution AA and Brilliant Exculpation into the mix to see if you like that even better. The multibind / macro:
    • /alt act 7712 #Disruptive Persecution
    • /cast 1 # Brilliant Exculpation
    • /cast 2 # Remonstrate
    • /cast 3 # Valiant Diversion
    • /cast 4 # Protective Consecration
    Note: For a macro, ignore everything from the '#' to the end of the line.
  6. Wulfhere Augur

    Burst (friendly target) replaces Propitiation, making the latter obsolete.

    Curious as to why Touch earns a spell gem?
  7. Kleitus_Xegony Augur

    That's my normal every day spell set that I start from and I definitely have other spell sets without it. It's probably more about the groups I'm in typically. Once in a while I step in here and there as the healer for another tank in group while the main healer is away, dead, whatever. I happen to like chain casting that spell when put in that role. It just seems to work well for me. I've watched my log files long enough to realize that the other stuff we have isn't cast enough by me (an emphasis on me) to bump it off the list for a general purpose spell set.

    I could easily see someone else using something different and I wouldn't think anything about it. That's one of the nice things with our spell set - we have some flexibility and it doesn't come down to a case where only these 13 spells should be loaded. I went over my base spell set and even mentioned how I typically swap things out. In particular, I mentioned swapping out Sincere Light / Touch spells for either the Burst spells or the big self-only yellow heals if I think I need them. It's definitely one of the spells I consider replaceable depending on the situation.

    I'm still trying to figure out what I want to use for my base sets in CoV. Need to decide how / where to work in the new Valiant upgrade and possibly some stuns depending on what the final tuning of mobs looks like.
    Wulfhere likes this.
  8. Szilent Augur

    Any paladin that wasn't already, like continuously since CotF, using every Valiant spell doesn't deserve the "new" spell. Should lose & have to re-earn the last 15 levels just to atone and prove worthiness.
  9. Wulfhere Augur

    Makes sense. I load Touch in those rare situations (even on raids) if I need to chain cast an efficient heal for a many minutes. It's just not in my base set.

    The one spell you're not mentioning, that I rarely take off my spell bar now, is the new Mark of the Jade Cohort.
  10. Wulfhere Augur

    Lol, I'll take that troll bait ;) .

    Valiant has only been working recently, since I and other paladins posted enough to get it fixed within the past 2 years. Prior to that it was not working as intended and went unused (rightfully so).

    Now that Valiant Heal is is working, it still has efficiency issues (lack of full focus) that in some situations it gets replaced by a nuke, a friendly heal (Light), or even Remonstrate (which has negative hate). It's now a great spell, but it hasn't earned a permanent spell gem (e.g. a DPS spell set will not include it).
  11. Kleitus_Xegony Augur

    I would disagree.

    In the group game, I personally don't need it. I use a DPS spell instead. If I do need it then sure, it replaces the top undead nuke in that lineup I listed.

    In raids, it can cause issues. For example, the old Droga raid it could cause you to get summoned from one side to the other by the goblins as you clear them and you can end up out of range of your assigned healer(s). In the AoW raid now, using it can sometimes cause unwanted aggro with the minions or the swords if you're tanking AoW.

    It's a great spell, but claiming it should be used continuously is over the top.
  12. Kleitus_Xegony Augur

    I've played with it a bunch of times and it's nice. I definitely don't use it as often as I should but I don't think going without it hamstrings me in any way. I'll play with it some more and see how I like swapping it in for something else. TBH I think I just got tired of putting it on every single mob. When you're grinding someplace like the dwarf caves in GD, they just die so fast I wonder what the point of it is vs. the mana cost.
  13. Ezbro Elder

    Sorry for slight derail, but are you completely set on Paladin versus SK(better class)?
  14. FranktheBank Augur

    I've heard some talks about paladins being in caster type groups (dru/enc) for undead nukes. Are those outperforming melee groups for paladins?
  15. Kleitus_Xegony Augur

    Doubtful. I haven't tried it for raids (lots of times in group game) but our DPS is roughly 65/35 melee vs. spell damage. You would naturally skew it with the caster DPS group but probably not that much. Bard + Beastlord + Shaman seems to have always been my best runs when I get mixed in with a DPS group.

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