ToV instances - Lock out timers a mess

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Dranix, May 24, 2016.

  1. Dranix Augur

    The lockout timers were poorly thought about and implemented for ToV. Timers coming up to tov were fairly easy to manage : almost every instance could be completed in one night with ease.

    ToV has been speculated since the server start to be to long for an average guild to complete everything. Over the course of the last couple days we've probably spent about 10 hours on 2 separate days and the instance still isn't finished. I consider us an extremely competent guild. We raid very well together, our largest constraint is and always will be that we're a guild for adults and we raid on an adult schedule.

    While I am happy the request lockout was reduced from 2 days to 6 hours, if you look at my lockouts now, I am stuck with half the zone being on one lockout, half the zone being on another, and speculating I will get a zonewide lockout upon killing Vulak. All of this while getting a loot lockout day 1 effectively meaning trash is worthless on the second day or subsequent days.

    There has got to be a better way to do ToV - it makes very little sense to force guilds to do ToV once every 2 weeks if they cannot spend 12 hours clearing it in one day. ToV is in my opinion the defining zone in Velious. The way instance lockouts have been thrown together shows poor insight and planning or a general idea of how they were supposed to function. It It also shows a distinct lack of interest in the commitment to this server as an instanced server.

    This is an excellent chance to brainstorm and address not only this issue but also the upcoming issue with Vex thal.


    Current implementation seems like it creates a new instance each time you request(speculation) - then just prepares/populates mobs based on what the leader has locked out. The lockout for individual encounters seem to be tied to the ID of the origin instance they were first engaged.

    Is it possible to simply save the state of the current instance throughout the instance timer based on the instance ID? This would require a single lockout that would easily dictate all the mobs in the zone without complicated individual lockouts/loot lockouts. I feel like the implementation would be fairly easy and would reduce a lot of the backend garble and simplify basically everything. This would allow guilds to effectively plan content in a meaningful way - something that is severely lacking as it stands in velious.

    Most of us moved to phinny to raid on a schedule because thats what our lives allow, I think I speak for all of us when I say we love this game but the time to spend 12 hours in the same zone or raid with 130 to compete in the open world on batphones is long, long since past for most of us (this is not a jab at anyone, I dont care what you do with your time as its none of my business.)

    TL:DNR - Lockout timers suck for ToV, please consider changing not just for ToV but to better implement future long raid zones.

    note: I'm starting this to open dialogue about an issue that has existed here since day 1(poorly implemented lockout timers). This isn't about casual vs. hardcore. Its not about free loots or whatever else people from other servers comes here to cluck about. Its about improving organization to provide a more enjoyable user friendly experience.
    Finley likes this.
  2. Mashef_8013 Elder

    Well, you should skip the bad named and clear the good named and go back for lesser dragons and be done with it in 6 hours then. There is no reason any guild would be in there more then 6 hours. You won't get all the named on week one but by mid expansion your guild should be geared enough to easily get everything that is worth getting.

    It sounds like your poor strategy has led you to the land of entitlement, thanks Obama.

    And ST is the defining zone of Velious and The Sleeper awakening is the EQ defining event that blew the game up into a juggernaut.
  3. Dranix Augur

    You completely ignored the main point and went straight to making jabs. Its our first week, we cleared a lot for armor. Clearly the kills will get faster and the clear time will go down dramatically. This has nothing to do with that. It has to do with a poorly implemented system that needs another pass before we get into content that is going to require it. ToV is a good place to start.

    Thank you for your constructive comment, your contribution to this discussion was invaluable.
    Ugin and Finley like this.
  4. Finley Augur

    It would be great if TOV were split into multiple instances, or they just changed the way the way the instance worked so we could return the following night with our progress saved. 6 hours doesn't feel like enough time right now; and most guilds on this server don't even normally raid in 6 hour blocks as far as I know.
  5. Syrup Augur

    Werdna likes this.
  6. TheTick Journeyman

    No guild on the server can do LTK (ST Key), HoT minis + Doz and all mobs required for killing Vulak in 6 hours with only 72 people.

    Go ahead and try to prove me wrong.

    Doz quests provides some of the best loot for the expansion, every guild here still needs more ST keys, and Vulak well...yeah no one wants to skip him.

    It would make perfect sense if it was split into multiple raids but I understand the complexity of that so how about just removing the silly global loot lockout so trash on re-entry the following day is worth it, and the instances timers were extended past 6 hours/Players could re-enter their lockout and pick up where they left off over the course of the week.

    This should be looked at.
  7. Zanador Elder

    There is an individual lockout for each boss. When you kill a boss and request another instance, that boss dies. There is ALSO an individual lockout for trash loot from each wing (WToV, NToV, HoT). If you are smart about it, and concentrate on a single wing, you can easily get all the loot.

    NOW, 6 hours in NToV is a stretch. Until we get more gear, it basically requires a perfect run. We spawned Vulak this week with 5 minutes left in the instance, and the only boss we wiped once on was Vyemm, rest were oneshots. Even with that, we brainstormed ways to streamline and make next week faster. It is all about learning the zone, learning tricks to make yourself more efficient.

    The most important thing is avoiding getting loot lockouts on other wings when you are going for a certain wing. The single bad implementation I saw was that the drakes at the door to each wing in the central area give you the loot lockout for that wing. For example, as we were clearing to NToV we killed the 2 drakes in the central hall outside the door to HoT. We never opened the door. Yet, those 2 drakes caused us to burn out loot lockout this week for HoT. Live and learn.
  8. SqueeshSqueesh Augur

    You should not need 6 hours to clear all the useful mobs in ToV. If your raid stops and clears all the trash in the zone you need to reconsider your strategy.
  9. Nicorus Elder

    We killed most of NTOV including vulak, I think all we left up was triplets, and then basically all of HOT before our lockout ran out. I think it is doable to clear the whole thing in the 6 hours. So if we sped up by a half hour we get lendi NP I think. It was a mostly smooth run but not completely flawless.

    Don't under estimate how much stronger we are all gonna be after even just a month in velious. Upgrading all our crappy group loot to amazing stuff, primals on the melee, etc.
  10. TheTick Journeyman

    Then AoS' opinion on this doesn't really account for since this change doesn't affect you one way or the other apparently. There are a majority number of players that this does affect.
  11. GhostbustersII Elder

    For the record, yes, there is a guild, possibly 2 that can do a full ToV clear in less than 6 hours.

    Also, ToV is the main loot endzone of the expansion. The loot in ST is a stepping stone to get to ToV. Back in the day it was almost non existent for a guild poorly geared to go into ToV let alone try to clear it in less than 6 hours.

    In short, my advise is give it a few weeks and get yourselves geared for the content. I am quite pleased this content isn't faceroll easy like it was in previous expansions.

    The instance lockouts can always use some tweaking but feel fortunate that you can go in there day after day to progress through the content.
  12. Jenarie Elder

    People seem to be missing the point. Yes, NToV can probably be cleared in six hours if not now then soon. But can Vex Thal? I remember raiding that all day on a Saturday when it was in era and not getting it to under six hours for a very long time. The point of this thread as I read it is that this is a good chance to tweak the system for something that works better going forward not just to 'fix' NToV - if this were the biggest zone we'll ever seen then I don't think this thread would exist.

    Being able to raid on a schedule is what drew a very large portion of the people to this server. Most of the people who raid after work in the evenings don't have six hours in one day. Being able to pick up an instance where it left off is a very large part of being able to raid on a schedule.
  13. Chuuk Augur

    If you can't clear the whole zone at a convenient pace in the allotted time window 6 days into the expansion, then it's tuned correctly.

    If you can't clear the zone with 6 days remaining in the expansion (assuming you are mostly all fully geared), then maybe it needs to be reworked.
  14. Dranix Augur

    Clearing the mobs was a conscious choice that had nothing to do with strategy or lack there of. We did it because we wanted to - nothing I said is in any way a complaint about the time invested into doing content. I like raiding, I like killing dragons, I like getting gear for people who want it regardless of its source.

    The topic of this post was discussing the terrible lockout mechanics and how they could in theory be fixed. I get you all want to forumquest it up but thats not the purpose here. Deliberately ignoring the point to take jabs at other guilds is just silly. Put away the epeens and read the damn post.

    Pacing or timing is not the issue. The issue is how lockouts are separated and potentially set up during the week. As we move forward we're going to see larger raid zones than ToV. ToV provides the perfect example of something i've been personally worried about since plane of sky was implemented. Its just not done very well.
  15. Jenarie Elder

    Maybe I'm the one that read it wrong since I keep thinking everyone else did but to me the point isn't how it is tuned. It certainly isn't too hard and I don't think anyone is saying it is. Most guilds probably can get the mobs they need dead in six hours - in my opinion, the problem is that no one wants to raid for six hours straight. Most people want to raid for 3-5 hours at a time depending on the day of the week. Also I don't think anyone is going to get VexThal cleared in six hours in era with 72 people but I could be wrong about that.
  16. Zanador Elder


    My point was that they did establish an instance lockout mechanic that would allow you to kill all the dragons. They decoupled NtoV, WToV and EToV loot lockouts- if you look at your loot lockouts, you'll see a "Loot Lockout- Halls of Testing" for example. If you do NOT kill any HOT drakes (the 2 drakes OUTSIDE the door in the main hall are on this loot lockout, so do NOT kill those) then when you come back day 2, you can still receive loot from trash in HoT (theoretically. I haven't confirmed, and if it doesn't work right even though it is coded this way thats a bug, not a design issue).

    So, if you strategically kill WINGS each night, you can have your cake and eat it too. You said you cleared the mobs because you wanted to- but if you clear them with a little foretought, you'll be able to clear far more of the mobs you want to.
  17. Dranix Augur

    The general loot lockout for ToV applies to all wings (unless I just missed something). The specific lockout for HoT applies to the minibosses therein as I understand it. I do not have a loot lockout for hall of testing, the only HoT specific lockouts I have are the mini-bosses and dozer. If I am understand the wording of this lockout wrong, that would actually clear up a misunderstanding however, I haven't seen anything confirming thats how it supposed to work - it did not work like that for us.

    All that being said, while I do appreciate the advice and will use that council in the future it really doesn't have much to do with the purpose of this post. I understand there are work arounds, I understand skipping this that and another - that is more or less outside the scope of what I wanted to accomplish here.

    Instances shouldn't be a convoluted mess juggling 22+ lockouts at various times during the week.
  18. Queena_Brokenhearts Augur

    Welcome to instanced raiding... It's always been a juggling contest making sure you have clear lockouts for things when you want to do them.
  19. Dranix Augur

    You misunderstood, thats 22 lockouts for a single instance.
  20. Queena_Brokenhearts Augur

    No I didn't misunderstand, while the number for a single instance may be abnormal, it's still no different in concept than any other instance, or group of instances that contain multiple lockouts.