ToV: How do i do bard DPS please?

The OP was clearly not referring to the raid game. So yes, I'm speaking for myself in the context of the question asked by the OP.

Lets be clear -- due to the atrophy of most songs/abilities, bards are seriously relegated to focusing on 1) personal dps, and 2) adps through epic clicks and activated AAs. Full stop. Your own guild member posted extensive parses looking at how totally worthless entire song lines of "adps" songs are.

Aria, Aura, epic 2.0, QT, FD, Alliance, Insults (to activate synergy and trigger alliance), and... basically that's it. A BP click? Or swarm pets? *shrug*

I still love my bard... I just wish he was more fulfilling to play.

I take no pleasure in saying that this post is 100% correct. You will find those that disagree with this but they are likely misinformed. Bards are not the same class they used to be and that’s all there is to it until someone (developer) cares enough to salvage our identity as a provider of ADPS through songs.

Just so this doesnt turn into arguments, i actually started this thread based on boxing a bard so raiding stuff just isn't what this post is about.
I wanted to know how to dps and adps at the same time in group content based on my box team

Swarm pets with a mage is worthwhile ADPS for ... Of Many nukes.

"... on a raid ... and only if that raid doesn't expect to need to use the extended target window for anything, should they all get mass charmed" (ala ToFS 3)

Mages probably have better spells to mem in the group game, unless the group has a bunch of swarm pet classes.

Pet lag reduces DPS on raids, so probably counter productive.

That was my point. A bard counts as a swarm pet class as far as mages are concerned.

One of the powerful magician pet buffs comes from casting Many regularly. It's within bounds for try-hard mages to seek that proc between battles, much like SKs can cast their self buff taps on random trivial targets, but (also much like those SKs) it's super typical to just throw the spell into fights. Regardless, good magicians don't mem over it. Since Many is going to be cast, the Prankster boost to its damage is a valid synergy to observe. It's +1 bracket on Many damage with 100% uptime.

Song of Stone's +9 pets guarantee *full* base damage on Many for their duration when combined with Prankster, just like magicians' own Host of Elements

No lol. Just that I'd dropped some of the other songs for dots/nuke. Ultimately for my purposes I found that I was best off keeping sathir's on cooldown for synergy purposes, but otherwise playing full adps songs. the dots just don't get enough time to stack up and start ticking.

If you synergy is maxxed out, I could recommend. Aria, Sathir's insult, Warmarch, Ormoden's insult, Ormoden's Song of Suffering, Sathirs insult. Fairly easy line up and your synergy will land a lot. Ormoden's is a mana pig. The Bard Synergy in your group will a ton of ADPS. Also for the group game, the dots are nice but mobs usually dont last long enough for them to really cook.

There are man different options but the 90k every person in the group is going to do on their next strike after an insult is amazing. If you have mana problems drop Ormodens and use another Sathirs

Hey guys i just thought i would put an update up as i now have nukes and dots max and also synergy. (I swapped my rogue for a zerker as imo its more fun, it adds adps to others and the damage is great still)

Im running x3 adps songs, Dicho, Nuke, x2 dots (These usually can cycle without anything ever dropping)
Aria > Warmarch > Nuke > Dicho > Nuke > Suffering > Nuke > Dot > Nuke > Dot > Dicho > Nuke

I still am not sure the damage is worth it imo. In normal group content things die usually by time i'm just getting the last dot on so they arn't really doing much. I think i personally prefer to run more buffs like 1 Ac song, pulse, reckless. Suffering maybe? its extra damage or safety if we want to be more slack but still using the nuke for synergy.

I usually duo with a friend and our group comp is :
Raid Warrior - Max AA - 30-40% of the damage
Raid Shaman - Max AA - Just heals
Zerker - Spent 1.1k AA - around 20%
Monk - Spent 8k AA - around 20%
Ranger - Max AA - around 20%
Bard - (dot/nuke and synergy AA maxed) - Around 4-6%

(Worth saying but those % are for the majority of the kills, burns a different story and the bard might as well not be casting any damage what so ever )

It may depend on your kill speed as dots do need to tick to really help and take time to get all 4 on.

Insults will be less personal dps than focusing on loading the target with 4 dots but will help group ADPS if you are killing fast I would lean towards buffing the group.

If you want to compare bard dps I would do a new melody with Aria > Dissident > Insult > Dotx4 > Warmarch > and for the final song pick whichever ADPS you like or a 2nd insult cast. That should give your bard a big boost assuming the dots can tick at all at your kill speed, it should be more total group dps as well.

I hope some day they increase our ADPS songs but currently I feel the personal dps I bring when boxing out weighs going too heavy on ADPs/insults assuming dots have time to tick. We also need a non push insult for raids.

Bard swarm pets have nearly a 100% uptime, meaning there are no better spells for a mage to cast in the group game (with a bard in group) the of many line procs a buff on all pets so it needs to be memmed anyways. With a bard in the group you can use it as your main nuke on a mage (like in raids) without a bard (or 6 pets) it becomes the last nuke in rotation.

nah, needs full count (>14 pets for 56575) to be higher damage than Spear (48676, no conditions). Next bracket down from full makes the damage equal to Chaotic (35874 vs 35926), but no twin/refresh procs on Many. Under most conditions, the fire Rain spell out damages all but Servant spell. So Many is last in rotation except during the duration of either the magician's own Host AA or bard's Stone. Which is fine; anyhow it's all mage stuff. As long as Many's not a wasted spell cast then it will be cast (for the excellent pet buff).

and if it's cast then Pranksters will bump its damage one bracket. nice.

But you are basically at a break even point with the 6 pets and using less mana with of many. Of course if rains are viable that will be better sustained dps..especially if you’re hitting multiple targets, but you also have a 30% uptime on host of elements and 10% uptime on song of stones which bumps its damage up ahead of both spears. So 40% of the time it will be doing more damage than spear, 60% of the time less, but it also uses far less mana and procs theft on all pets. This is also assuming you are counting any other pets that you are grouped with.. it’s very close to a wash with just a bard and mage and better for burns.

I use several different multibinds (or macros when I box my mage) but if I had to choose one when grouped with a bard it would prioritize of many over spear. With my chanter I’d have of many after both spears. I generally hit chaotic over and over until twincast pops in between (RS/big nuke).. and stop casting chaotic once twincast is on. This wouldn’t change regardless of the amount of pets though.

Note that Of Many has a much lower cast time than Spear. They both have the same global cooldown of course.

Dealing with deciding when to cast Of Many and when not to when boxing a bard + mage is kind of a hassle. Even though high uptime is possible, guaranteeing the swarm pets are on the right target for every of many cast isn't. I opted for just keeping it relatively low in the rotation to cast it once in a while for the buff. The loss of potential DPS isn't large because the other options are just so good.

This group is so stacked with DPS I'd recommend focusing on how your bard can contribute toward survivability so you can pull more recklessly and focus less on your shaman or more frequently use its DoTs, achieving more DPS. The valuable bard spell that I don't see discussed often in these threads is the Reckless Renewal line, that you're already using. The other thing I don't see discussed in this thread is the usage of heal proc sticks ( https://items.eqresource.com/items.php?id=163146 ). The bard's fierce eye, reckless renewal makes it valuable for the bard, and stacks well with the ranger's healing AAs. I use heal procs in my box group and it provides tremendous benefit that overshadows the benefit of damage procs, especially since you can pop a proc buff and substitute for your shaman while it's up.

This vid of me six boxing is pretty old and doesn't show the bard, but it's of a similar group (swap the monk for a beastlord) and might be interesting.

a more recent vid of current expansion (after I swapped the ranger/beastlord for 2x berserkers) is here:

Thats kind of the conclusion i came to Tuc.

I basically have 2 song sets now 1 for when im duoing which has pulse/reckless and things in, then i have my 4box setup which i add the dots back in.