ToV Earring Evolving Quest

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Allayna, Jan 8, 2020.

  1. svann Augur

    Thats odd. I only find 10 of those in my jewel recipe list.
    missing:
    Assaulting Ice
    Defending Ice
    Casting Ice
    Protecting Ice
    Warding Ice
    I wonder if there is a bug in the recipe search coding, or did I just not get those recipes.
  2. Jondalar Augur

    More items. Check table not kit.
    svann likes this.
  3. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    What follows is an attempt at clarification and not a binding rule.

    The non-raid NPCs are a bit different from raid NPCs, yet in many ways the same.

    The main intent of the raid instance is to support the raid events. If you have a lockout for a raid, we expect you to not participate in the raid or gain loot from it again until your relevant lockouts expire. Similarly, for the "Augment Farm" we intend you to gain augments, or parts to make augments, from a single clear of the instance per Loot Lockout.
    Having a Loot Lockout for an instance does NOT mean you can't participate in a raid if you do not have a lockout for that raid. The Loot Lockout prevents looting from the non-raid NPCs. You can participate in any available raid events as normal and loot items from reward chests upon raid success.

    It’s intended that you have have one chance at X per lockout, where X is clearing non-raid NPC for augments, or a raid encounter and its chest reward loot. You can clearly split raid these clears with far less than 54 characters. This is okay. But as with raid loot, it’s not okay to bypass the loot lockout to allow for more instance clears and more loot than would be acquirable normally.

    To sum up: One opportunity per lockout. It should be obvious when you’re trying to circumvent the lockout to gain additional loot. I won't engage in a complicated semantics argument on this topic. Also, we may revisit this later if it proves to be problematic.
    OldCa61, Jhenna_BB, Prathun and 15 others like this.
  4. Kontra Augur

    This is the tried and true method for ensuring you aren't bypassing or skirting the rules with respect to raid lockouts. If your members want to form individual groups and clear the raid zone trash mobs for their shot at the luck augments and the diamondized precious ores, they can safely do so by this method. It means there will be a loot lockout applied on the next run of the raid, but not an event lockout, so the chest would still contain loot.
    No one is double-dipping in this scenario

    And Ngreth just confirmed it. You now have your answer @Lisard
    FubarEQ, Thunderkiks, kizant and 5 others like this.
  5. Ranonman Elder

  6. Elsewhen New Member

  7. Hellowhatsyourname Augur


    Since the raid won't drop any augs, does the rest of the raid also not get a loot lockout upon killing a trash mob?

    If the raid DOES get a loot lockout, despite the fact that an event hasn't been won AND augs aren't allowed to drop from trash, then that's bs and needs to be looked at.

    Bottom line is, if you want people not to skirt the rules, a clear path for following the rules also needs to be in place. From Ngreth's post above, it seems like there is a way forward that works, but if people get loot lockouts from all kills despite who requests the instance, then that's an issue.
    Daedly likes this.
  8. Cloud the Third Augur

    Guessing maybe they have to go off lockout for any kill or only a single kill. Could you change it so all the trash mobs who drop the loot be the same type so you have to kill one of the trash mobs that does it must be killed so the raid can be run as a guild with no trash lockout and then afterwards (even if the raid boss is dead and on lockout) the groups can come back and do the trash clear and get a lockout? Like make the entire trash lockout another raid that doesn't really need a raid? Or just make it a different instance on it's own that you can only run once a week with harder than group level mobs and allow a full raid if they want to do it with more than a group?

    This is only really an issue because the trash killing in ToV is not required to beat the raids, I mean I guess in TBL trash clearing was not required on every raid but most raids needed at least some trash clearing before you did the boss. I think FF and stone (not sure any trash is even in this zone) raid were the only ones that needed zero trash clearing before you engaged the boss, but All 3 ToV raids so far need no trash clearing.
    FubarEQ likes this.
  9. MasterMagnus Augur


    There is a concept in software development whereby there are three 'mental models' of how different groups think a program works.
    Developer's model: How the developers think and intend the program to work.
    User's model: How users think it works and what the intention was behind it.
    Manifest model: The way it actually works in the real world. Where often the original intention doesn't matter, there is only what the user's intent is behind their usage.

    In most businesses, they are going to cater to the customer. And their mental model of what it should be.

    In Everquest, however, this is how it has always worked:
    If they say it's an exploit, it's an exploit. Doesn't matter how long and/or how many people do it.

    You could say, in this case, the users are having to use a work-around to make it work as intended. And you'd be right.

    That is because the code is complicated, the intent is clear, and it wasn't a problem that needed to be addressed. Until people posted video and came here to defend, having alts boost them to the cookie jar.

    The cookie jar that everybody saw this whole time, knew they could get a boost to it, but knew that was wrong and the whole reason mommy put it there in the first place.

    Although many people feel like there needs to be an ironclad way for the user to follow the design intent. There isn't a neat clean, and time efficient way for them to code that.

    The honor system may have to suffice.
    Derka likes this.
  10. Yinla Augur

    If you have no loot lockout, but you have the event lockout can you still get the instance to farm for augs?
    FubarEQ likes this.
  11. Cloud the Third Augur

    You couldn't in TBL but not tried testing it in ToV.
  12. Kontra Augur

    The raid is requested by someone who already has a loot lockout, so that lockout is applied to everyone in the raid at the start of the expedition upon getting the DZ. If you kill trash, it just drops nothing.


    I'll let you know an answer to this in a few days when I can test it :)
  13. Lianeb Augur

    You couldn’t in fire but the rest you could. No base pop spawned in fire if you had the reparm lockout, but the other instances with base pop would spin up without the raid mobs but still have basepop. Not sure how ToV is
  14. Tharnkiss Journeyman

    So what your saying is...

    If you raid these zones once a week you must get the augs in a raid setting.

    If you group and don't raid you can get the raid augs.

    That is how your message is translated...

    When you kill a boss or an add in the event, then you get the loot lockout. So if your guild chooses to not do the trash evolved in those raids you can't get the type 19 augs with out exploting the system.

    Please fix as not all guilds kill the trash and it is preferred to kill the raid trash in a group so that you aren't rolling against 53 other players.
  15. Cicelee Augur

    That is not what he is saying. And I am having a struggle as to why so many are confused by this, except that people are trying to exploit and circumvent the rules for their personal gain.

    You are allowed to kill a raid boss named once every 4.5 days. Therefore you have a chance at raid boss named loot every 4.5 days. Whereas from here on out "you" refers to your specific character. Not the four characters on your account. It is character based, not account based.

    You are allowed to kill the base population once every 4.5 days for a chance at augments. This can happen during the time period when you also kill raid boss named, with the same people. Or you can go off on your own if you choose, as long as you are not killing more of (and multiple of) the base population.

    So if raid zone xyz has 25 trash named A through Y, and raid boss named Z, you are allowed to kill trash A through Y for a chance of augments, and then kill Z. If you kill A through Y, and then tomorrow join someone else's raid instance and kill trash A through Z... well now you have killed 50 trash within 4.5 days instead of 25. And that is a no no.

    Now I should state that if the second A through Y the next day cannot drop augments due to lockouts, then that is fine. There is no personal gain outside of some AA which is irrelevant in this discussion. You are allowed to kill augment dropping A through Y once every 4.5 days, just like the raid boss. Devs want you to kill 26 potential loot dropping mobs once every 4.5 days for a chance at said loot.

    Come on Forum Quest. I know you can do it!
  16. Smokezz Augur

    Good god people, quit trying to find loopholes. No wonder the devs won't answer questions like can you use a particular piece of software anymore. Some of you will find some problem with the answer.

    You can raid the actual raid. That gets you the RAID LOCKOUT.

    You can do the trash separately, with a single group. The fact the loot lockout doesn't apply properly if you join after the dz is started is a bug that isn't easily fixed apparently. So... if you use that bug to your advantage and clear the trash 5 times a week, you are exploiting the LOOT LOCKOUT. It's not rocket science, you know exactly what the rule is.
    Mintalie, Cloud the Third and Duder like this.
  17. MyShadower Augur

  18. Yinla Augur

    With these events you don't need to kill the trash to complete the event, so you can you just kill Z without getting a loot lockout and kill A - Y the following night?
  19. Cloud the Third Augur

    Problem is raid event mobs give you trash lockout even though you never kill a single trash mob.

    Would be nice if you only got trash lockout when you killed a trash mob and if anyone in the raid has the lockout at the time the raid gets the instance it spawns no trash mobs in the instance. That way the trash mob clears would be completely independent of the raid mobs and everyone would be free to do them on their own time. You could also stop people with a trash lockout from joining an instance that has the trash mobs up to fix the exploiting.

    This would only hurt 1 thing. People who have the lockout not being able to join a raid dz that was started with noone in the raid that has a lockout but they did have the lockout.
    FubarEQ and Yinla like this.
  20. Fian Augur

    Guys, this thread is about the earring quest. Can you create a new thread to discuss raid exploits?

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