TOFs raid change

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Drakang, Mar 11, 2020.

  1. Syylke_EMarr Augur

    I am not saying that the tier 2 raids did not possibly need some kind of change to make them more challenging. I will say that I don't know if that is true or not. EGL list has tier 2 being completed by about 33% fewer guilds than tier 1, as things stand right now. Is that enough of a difference between tiers? I don't know.

    What I am saying is that the method of this change is wrong and does nothing to fix the supposed problem.
  2. Daedly Augur

    I am not trying to be argumentative, just curious. How are you getting any type of accurate parse in ToFS #1? We're you talking about all 3 raids combined? Also, what class are you?
    svann likes this.
  3. Koryu Professional Roadkill

    I understand that it's difficult to achieve the numbers with a declining playerbase, but the events are designed and intended to be beaten by a raid force of 54. Going in with any less than that is automatically making the event harder on yourself.
    FawnTemplar and feeltheburn like this.
  4. Cloud the Third Augur

    We normally 1 shot all 3 raids without fail. I normally do just parse and combine all 3 and split them out but the first 2 are kinda =/ like alot of raids with bane damage and raid being split into different areas you miss other dps so they don't parse the best.

    The 3rd raid I think I was number on most parses as it is a pretty small area and has alot of designs that make bard dps really good on. It has multi mobs for shout and pretty stable dps on main vampire with run aways that allow dots to keep going during.

    Really dps parsing for any raid in the last 3 expansions is bad. Lots of different run away, split raids doing different jobs, and bane damage that makes parses never get everything or hurts random people making their dps worst even if it has nothing to do with how they play their class.
  5. kimbotta Journeyman

    SO if the adverage raid size is 40-48 why balance raids around 54 people? I don't know what most guilds who attempt an event field, but I'm willing to bet the determining factor in all of this is raid size that equates to a win.

    By your logic if we can't field 50+ people we are just wasting our time, especially after the latest changes to these raids.
  6. feeltheburn Augur

    54 been that way for quite some time now. hard to say your a raiding guild then if you cannot field that...
  7. kimbotta Journeyman

    You can be a raiding guild with 30 people if you really want. The odds of winning are just much lower.

    They can design a raid anyway they would like, that's their prerogative. The only point I was eluding to is this; If 4 out of 10 guilds have 54 people and 6 of 10 don't what's the point of making these events harder when it is only going to impact the later who could hardly beat the events as they where? What did this change really accomplish?

    It's like putting a bigger tax burden on the single mom who is only getting by as is.
    Redemption and Windance like this.
  8. Windance Augur

    We are doing most of what you have listed above. I'd love to get a tutorial on how to do better. Do you have any pointers to anything that is up to date?

    Maybe I need to join a top 5 guild for a couple weeks and bring back some of the tips/tricks/lessions learned.
    Redemption and FawnTemplar like this.
  9. svann Augur

    Where did you get that statistic?
    Warpeace, Celephane and Daedly like this.
  10. Zarzac Augur

    As someone having a hard time fielding 50+, yes you should be wasting your time if you can't field 50+. If 45 players from a non top tier guild can beat it, it's probably too easy.
    Jerjamlor and Galarian like this.
  11. Cadira Augur

    Your guild has a bard in the top 3 dps spots? I think they have bigger issues than where you are being placed to figure out.
    Lannin and Funky like this.
  12. kimbotta Journeyman

    Using EGL and looking at the 50 guilds who finish content, I dropped the first 10 and last 10. I then sent tells to raiders/friends in these guilds asking how many functional players they have ( asked not to include people who show up once a month or die to the first emote) the adverage for these guilds was mid 40's.
  13. Allayna Augur

    Knowledge deficits hurt this game. As people retire or quit, there is a loss to the game as a whole in knowledge.

    Groups 1-2 are Warrior, Paladin x2, Cleric x2, Shadowknight
    Groups 3-6 are generally Shaman, Bard, Monk, Beastlord, Ranger, Pure Melee (we have 0 rogues so it's zerker)
    Group 3 is also the swing group in our raid force, if we need more tanking and healing it becomes a 3rd tank group.
    Group 7 is our odd makeup group as we don't always have the "ideal" makeup either. So it is generally Shaman, Bard, Necro x2, Enchanter, (Ranger or Beastlord) and then group 6 gets an additional zerker.
    Group 8-9 are Druid, Enchanter, Mage x2, Wizard x2.

    Ideally:

    1-2 would be the tank groups as listed.
    3-6 would be as listed.
    7-9 would be Druid, Bard, Enchanter, Magician, Wizard, Necro.

    We have our groups set up their own burn within their groups.
    We use chat channels for tank lineups, DI messages, etc.

    In the "down season" we run COP4 raids in Plane of War, to make sure our raid force has enough COP4 clickies, then we designate a person to run that.
    Same for rez sticks, twin cast clickies, venenium/shield of immaculate light.
    We put in work to make sure people have the tools at their disposal.

    We encourage using Kizant's parser for DPS, to know what put's you at 100% crit rate.

    We group outside of raids, two-fold benefit of learning how we interact as a team and communicate as well as more of the 60ish roster have max heroics, max AA, max evolving experience, max glyphs prior to raids, all type 5s are current, etc....

    We assign class leaders and allow them a lot of autonomy, to run their class, auspice rotation, paragon rotation, SoTW, CR, AIDS, GoL, Totems, Debuffs, etc are all run at the class level.

    We have multiple MAs set for events and often will split DPS, casters on x, melee on y.

    We don't tolerate drama or cheating. Those who end up doing either are promptly removed. We'd rather run short than deal with the cancer of drama or cheating. <This is something that I see destroy guilds>
    Lannin and Daedly like this.
  14. feeltheburn Augur

    shrug you could raid with 12 if you want to play that hand....my point is if you cant field the number I stated, you should not be considering yourself a raiding guild or expect to defeat a event designed to be a raid, not a 3 group event. Spin your tax analogy all you want, you are NOT a raiding guild with 30, has nothing to do with odds. Spin away if you must.
  15. Cloud the Third Augur

    Bards do alot more damage now if you know what you are doing but it probably helps also that I have everything maxed for ToV and almost fully raid geared while many others are nowhere close and need lots of spells. It is probably also an issue with some people just not playing their class right but even the ones I know that can play very well I can outdps sometimes.

    Bards this expansion have something no other dps really has a combo of melee range and long range dps and we can cast while running. This lets us do massive damage while running around while other casters can't cast and have to run and melee are out of range to hit. We also can increase dps when in close range with melee too.
  16. kimbotta Journeyman

    Ok let me make this statement. It is poor design to consistently punish the player who has less time to devote to the game.
  17. Lianeb Augur

    Everquest is a game, games are meant to be fun.

    If you find logging in to raid with your guild a chore then that doesn’t seem fun. I get friendships and all that, but you ultimately want to have fun in this game. If where you are is so frustrating that you are not having fun then you may want to look into a guild change. I am not saying you that you should join a top 10 guild or anything but find one that fits your ideas and try it out.

    I know that my perspective is from a guild that fields 54 man raids, but I also make it a point that when we are raiding we have fun. It’s even more fun when I get to push the guild as the raid leader and we wipe, how many guilds have you been in where you can say “ehhh we wiped but dam that was fun”, if it had worked it would have been glorious....but it didn’t

    PS I am sorry to MS I probably kill you more than I should.

    PSS I am sorry not sorry
    Lannin, Funky, Karhar and 2 others like this.
  18. Laronk Augur

    Glyphs are pretty standard in my guild almost everyone has 230 aa banked before raids
    Lannin and Allayna like this.
  19. feeltheburn Augur

    well then thats another case altogether isn't it.....everyone has their own story and time alotted, but can't expect to be raid ready or intent on raid if your just casual then, as your statement there alludes to .
  20. feeltheburn Augur

    attack on....
    Belexes likes this.

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