To Bard or not to Bard?

Discussion in 'The Newbie Zone' started by Polarex, Dec 2, 2023.

  1. Polarex New Member

    so, I'm 4boxing right now and have a bst that doesn't seem to be doing much due to bad positioning all the time. yes, I'm terrible at that. Got a sk/shm/mage/bst. but I'm losing to much with bad positioning. Now thinking of switching bst for bard. basically bard would be an afk adps sometimes it would melee if I remember to position right and whatever aa's that I can multibind. don't really care about selo's I tend to get into trouble with that. would this be a good trade off or would it be better to just add another mage?
  2. Iuwene Augur

    Interesting, as I face a similar question currently.
    I added a Bard to my DRU/MAG/ENC/SK/CLR team but i am not yet sure if another Mage or Necro would be more DPS. While the aDPS of the Bard will be more than welcome (if he gets to 120/125), his meelee DPS gets usually lost because I tend to forget to position him correctly.
  3. Alnitak Augur

    Swap SK/Shm/mage/bst for a mage/brd/mage/bst and double the dps and improve tanking capacity.
  4. Flatchy Court Jester

    Bad positioning? Set your campfire, that is your landing pad for the mob. Set all your toons(all of em) around that fire.Pull with the sk, hit melee on ALL YOUR TOONS and you are there. Oh and set your pets away from the fire so they come in. I been 4 boxing for years and this is my method of operation. My beast is a chain saw going through mobs. Do not want to lose him. Personally I go , Sk, SHaman, Beast, and bard.
  5. uberkingkong Augur

    What can you do, and what are you trying to do that is making you want to make a change?
    ex. you can do ToV nameds, but you want to do ToV missions highest tier.

    Also, are you alt tabbing?

    No one is suggesting a 3rd party boxing helper are they hrmmm.
    Issue is positioning right, wonder what helps with that.

    Wonder if developers made a autoattack and say you have position and get in range checkmarked yes in some checkmark area. Then no more you are out of range, automatically get into range automatically chase.

    3rd party boxing programs do this right.
    Legit ones too right?

    Why struggle alt tabbing?

    Also, 4 boxing right? What about dropping down to 3 box, especially if you alt tab. Try having a dps merc and compare dps, maybe having 4 box is holding you back.

    Again the main question is,
    What can you do, and what are you trying to do that is making you want to make a change?
  6. Iven the Lunatic

    SHD SHM BST MAG is a bad lineup. Definitely kick the BST out ! Replace it with a druid or an enchanter. Both can use DoTs with hotbutton macros. DPS wise it would be about equal, so the primary difference is about travelling/evac/foraging/tracking vs mez/auras/mana_regen. A bard cannot port, cannot evac, and has limited tracking and foraging. Only mana regen but not as good as the enchanter. All three (DRU, ENC, BRD) would add much better pulling. If you only want better DPS, get a necro but it might be not mana efficient and overkill with more downtime.
  7. FranktheBank Augur

    getting to 4 boxes and not having a bard is horrible.
    code-zero likes this.
  8. strongbus Augur

    I run bst/sk/sham/cleric/mage/brd. atm. Easy way I make sure bard/bst/sk are all meleeing? I stack them all on top of each other and pull to that stack. I was running bst/bard/sham/clr/druid for a bit with the druid just dpsing. but man the druid ran out of mana fast and I was having to stop and med all the time.
  9. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    Really? When I've looked at spells/songs on ZAM/raidloot, etc, it always seemed Bards offered better mana regen than enchanters. Enchanters obvious benefit is, you can get a mana buff from them out of group and be on your way. Bards, obviously, have to be there with you to get the mana benefit.
  10. Iven the Lunatic

    Enchanters have a mana regen buff + 2 stackable mana regen auras. Droods can add another mana regen buff (Skin line) which does stack. While the buffs can be added from outside of the group, the auras cannot.
  11. Tuco Augur

    OP, any combination of

    shd + shm/bst/mag/brd

    is going to work well. Beastlords require positioning, like you say, and active button presses. Replacing it with a bard would reduce difficulty of getting decent performance from your group.

    I'm running with shd/shm/mag/mag/brd right now, it's very strong. I'm thinking about replacing one of the mages with a beastlord next year via persona. I want to see how parses end up with the new weapons in this expansion.

    Here's a vid of me doing one of the new missions with that team.



    Bard has a very strong aura. Bard has very good mana regen, tracking and foraging. Necros are very mana efficient themselves and can help the mana of the group (not that any of them need it with a shadowknight in the group).


    https://www.raidloot.com/spells?name=aura&effect=&class=Bard&level=&view=

    [66980/125080230] Aura of Tenisbre Rk. III
    Classes: BRD/125
    Skill: Singing, Max Focus: 280%
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 3s, Recast: 1.5s
    1: Aura Effect: Aura of Tenisbre Effect III (PCIObBrdS25L125AuraSpellDmgRk3)
    Text: You are surrounded by an empowering aura.
    Book: Auras/Haste/Spell FocusCreates an aura around you that applies Aura of Tenisbre Effect III to your companions, which increases their attack speed by 25%, spell damage by 33%, triple attack rate by 25%, their chance to flurry by 24%, and their companions' chance to flurry by 30% as long as they stay inside the area of the aura.
    [66983] Aura of Tenisbre Effect III
    Target: Single
    Range: 100'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s
    1: Increase Spell Damage by 33% (v124, Before DoT Crit, After DD Crit)
    2: Increase Melee Haste by 25% (v119)
    3: Limit Effect: Current HP
    4: Limit Max Level: 125 (lose 5% per level)
    5: Limit Type: Detrimental
    6: Limit Target: Exclude Caster AE
    7: Limit Target: Exclude Caster PB
    8: Limit Target: Exclude Target AE
    9: Limit Type: Exclude Combat Skills
    10: Increase Chance to Triple Attack by 25%
    11: Increase Chance to Flurry by 24%
    12: Increase Pet Chance to Flurry by 30%
    Increases the damage of your group's spells by 33%. This bonus will decay on spells over level 125. This aura also increases your companions' attack speed by 25%, their chance to triple attack by 25%, their chance to flurry by 24%, and their companions' chance to flurry by 30%.
  12. Iven the Lunatic

    Well, I forgot that bards do have auras as I mixed them up with songs. I just compared ENC and BRD spells/auras and the bard mana regen ability is about the same than that of the enchanter, without the enchanter's mana repro aura that does trigger an unknown and variable amount of mana on castings. All in all the bard seems to be OPed when comparing it to the enchanter and other classes. While an enchanter can increase DD spell dmg by +4% with an aura, the bard does increase it by +33% for all spells.

    I think that it is still better to pick an enchanter over a bard for some boxing combos, because of melee positioning, crowd control and easyness. Melody does make playing song medleys very easy, but notes can still fail and songs be interrupted. For melee and pet heavy groups I would go for the bard, but for caster groups with just one melee tank, I would go for the enchanter.
  13. Tuco Augur

    pal + enc + dru + 3x wiz could be really spicy in LS. I think either aozs or alnitak did that group last year.
  14. Flatchy Court Jester

    Quick question from a bard newbie what Aura do you prefer to use for mana regen? It is not like one of their songs that have to keep going then? It is just a cast and forget it?
  15. code-zero Augur

    You have a choice of Aura or Echo, the Echo stays in camp. Otherwise just go with the highest level you can
  16. Iven the Lunatic

    Should be cast and forget like Aura of Tenisbre and most other auras.

    Aura of Shalowain (LS)
    Classes: BRD/122
    Skill: Singing, Max Focus: 320%
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 3s, Recast: 1.5s
    1: Aura Effect: Aura of Shalowain Effect (PCIObBrdS25L122AuraRegenRk1)
    Text: You are surrounded by a replenishing aura.
    Book: Auras/Health/ManaCalls forth a blessing of renewal to add 1304 health, 356 mana, and 25 endurance every six seconds to your group, as long as they stay inside the area of the aura.

    Aura of Shei Vinitras (ToL)
    Classes: BRD/117
    Skill: Singing, Max Focus: 320%
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 3s, Recast: 1.5s
    1: Aura Effect: Aura of Shei Vinitras Effect (PCIObBrdS24L117AuraRegenRk1)
    Text: You are surrounded by a replenishing aura.
    Book: Auras/Health/ManaCalls forth a blessing of renewal to add 1075 health, 294 mana, and 23 endurance every six seconds to your group, as long as they stay inside the area of the aura.
  17. Iven the Lunatic

    Just testing the three different lvl 97/98 mana regen auras/songs. Aura/Echo/Chorus of Salarra. The auras (Aura/Echo) seem to be completely bugged as they do not have any effect on the bard itself and group members. Only Chorus of Salarra does work, which is the only one that I had used in the past. However the bard does not get affected by the mana regen part (as usual).
  18. Chorus Augur

    what you're missing about the bard mana regen is that all the different ones will stack with each other so they put out WAY more mana regen than the other classes do. Aura, Chorus and Pulse along with crescendo is quite a bit of mana pumping and it is superior to enchanters and has always been so.
  19. Iven the Lunatic

    I was testing the stacking and can report that Aura and Echo do not stack. Each of them does stack with Chorus but as they are bugged, I was not able to see the values that they would had added. I also wanted to compare the bard songs and auras with the enchanter spells and auras in practice, because I suspected that they would add much more mana regen, which does not seem to be right.

    The bard can beat some classes in their speciality territory or is at least coming much to close, and Absor and Lucy (dev and ex-player) are known for being bard fans. Of course it is much easier to balance the game by overpowering a single class like the bard which is the ideal swiss army knife, instead of having to balance 16 classes over a span of 125 levels.