TLP Guild loot rules

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by FinalTidus23, Jun 9, 2021.

  1. jiri_ Augur

    My guild uses a blind-bid system. It's fine. So far drama has been centered around the normal things - bards/rangers/bsts/etc outbidding rogues on mainhand piercer upgrades, bards and clerics being annoyed that T3/4 plate items were restricted to warriors, then to paladins/sks.

    I think it's probably the best system. The main downside is what other people have identified - your DKP officer can rig things pretty easily. But if you don't trust your guild's DKP officer, you need to go to leadership, and if you don't trust leadership you should probably just find another guild.
  2. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    That is still the solution, if they want to be petty and rise the price of an item just stick them with it. Sure it might be a marginal upgrade for them and better if someone else gets it but forcing them to spend DKP on marginal upgrades will just make them run out faster. Once they start realizing that they are going to have to actually pay for this type of action they are more likely to stop doing it.
  3. Bullsnooze Augur


    That's pretty much OpenDKP, but its web-based instead of on discord.
  4. Nenton Augur

    Funny we have combined the worst parts of all of these systems in our guild:
    • Blind bid.
    • NOT 2nd highest bid +1. You pay what you bid, no matter the overage.
    • Restricted items which somehow only applies to warriors. BSTs taking the best Rogue dagger we've seen in 3+ months is A-OK.
    • DKP cap with an additional DKP penalty for hitting the cap (for administrative reasons?).
    The best DKP system I have been a part of was EPGP (effort points/gear points). It seems to be completely out of the mainstream and yet I found it to be the most fair. It would be even easier to utilize these days with bid bots compared to the manual method which was done years ago by my Live guild.

    Your "buying power" is the ratio of your earned points (DKP) divided by the amount/worth of items you've gotten recently against other's ratios. The more you loot, the lower your ratio/buying power. DKP and items rot off after a predetermined time period creating a rolling window of your earned DKP and items looted ratio. It always seemed to allow for a fair distribution of loot with a simple, mathematical incentive for good raid attendance.
  5. Tweakfour17 Augur

    I've been in EPGP guild before, it was terrible. People absolutely hated it because its not intuitive like DKP, their ratios could tank after only 1 or 2 items (by design I suppose) and it was a pain for the leadership to assign GP to every item.

    I like the closed bid bot style system but that involves someone creating and configuring a bid bot.

    It's amazing that the closest thing they've managed to develop in game is raid currency and that only took almost 2 decades to get.
  6. jiri_ Augur

    In slight fairness, tank, and specifically warrior, gear is the most important bit of gearing up.
  7. Nenton Augur

    In the context of Live (and seeing as we're on the TLP forums one could easily make an argument that this is a negative), all items were worth the same 1 point for us. An armor piece is an armor piece (for all classes) and is interchangeable in value with a non-vis piece. Certain classes could assign personal value differently based off focuses (e.g. I always went for arms/helm for fire/magic focus first on my Necro) but the items themselves didn't have vastly different degrees of value.

    I can definitely see there could be leadership pain in the context of TLP where items have such varying degrees of value during a period when the devs were still figuring out itemization themselves. You've got huge value swings within a single zone (e.g. TVX loot vs. Aten loot in VT), let alone across an entire expansion.

    In a system where an hour of raiding was worth a point, items were worth a point and we were on a 60 day rolling rot schedule, it wasn't at all complicated to view the DKP website, see your ratio compared to others and see when you +1'ed the bottom half of your quotient what your ratio was going to go down to.
    Tweakfour17 likes this.
  8. Tweakfour17 Augur

    That makes sense, itemization does get better (and more generic) as expansions go so itd be alot easier to assign values as you suggest.
  9. Aiona Augur

    Wait... your guild members aren't open rolling and choosing 'need' for every item that drops?

    Madness! :p

    What do you all think of modified Suicide King rules?
  10. Gheed Is not reading your response

    What exactly is wrong with talking with people to see what loot they are going after and not bidding so they don't bid on something for you in return? Seems like something non idiots would do but I guess not everyone falls into that category.

    Once yall suggested loot council being good I stopped taking this thread seriously
  11. Kahna Augur


    Collusion has always been frowned on in guilds. I don't think I have ever been in a guild that allowed it. When my Aradune guild found out the rogues were colluding on rogue only weapons so they could get them for pennies and then have lots of DKP to bid on more highly contested gear those who had participated and benefitted from the collusion were fined heavily. It throws off the balance of DKP bidding and just causes animosity within a guild. Did we lose a rogue over it? Yes, but the loss of that one rogue was far less damaging to the guild than the discord caused by the collusion.

    The only way to have a healthy DKP bidding guild is if it is every gnome for themselves.
  12. Karreck Somebody

    I've been in several guilds where collusion was seen as just a natural part of dkp bidding.
  13. Kahna Augur


    Sounds like some horrible guilds. You don't have to accept abusive relationships hun.
  14. Gheed Is not reading your response

    Wow you are dramatic. Collusion is great. You've had some stupid guild leaders I would say
    Genoane and Karreck like this.
  15. NumberWonEUteeth New Member

    Sounds like you got played.
    Karreck likes this.
  16. Mithra Augur

    Yeah makes sense rogues should use all their DKP on weapons and then have crappy gear and die to raid AEs.
    Karreck likes this.
  17. HoodenShuklak Augur

    I always hate when I bid more than I wanted to pay, and win.
  18. yerm Augur


    I didn't suggest loot council. Loot council is only ideal in a guild where everyone is friends. In modern TLP guilds with literal hundreds of people splitting a handful of instances of a raid, no, it's not going to work at all.

    Collusion can be fine in a private matter when it's done as a barter. I really want a gnome mask, I'm willing to pass on the vulak daggers if you guys would let me scoop up the mask - not a big deal to most. The problem is when it becomes extortion or bullying. You bid me up on this item so I'll bid you up in return. Let me have this item or else. Situations like that. With a blind bid system players can just bid what they want without all the publicity behind it, obviously unless they win. It's similar reasoning to why most votes are recorded privately. The private bids let people just put in what they want and either win or walk away quietly. It's healthier that way.

    Where I'd favor an open bid system is with money instead of dkp or other "fake" currency. If items are being sold for plat/krono the whole concept of driving up prices and reciprocal bidding and even one person chonking up their character because they're a whale are all now not a real problem. Go nuts. Bid each other up. Screw each other over. The more money in the pot the better for the masses.

    The problem with SO many eq guilds is that what's best for gearing up for the sole purpose of pushing raid content is not always the best for allowing your guild to back farm easy content, to do group content outside of raids, to solo or do stuff with friends/boxes/mercs, etc. As the expansions progress if you continually funnel loot in such a way that tanks are king so you can plow raids while everyone else has to beg, plead, moan, and grovel to get their non-raid goals met... your guild will start to deteriorate. You see it every tlp. There's the big drop after pop, and then the slow bleed going after, and usually its the classes who don't feel good about doing stuff or don't have the core setup (boxed tank, permagroup, etc) to compensate.

    So when you do loot you can't JUST do it for the sake of "what helps us beat the end zone most efficiently" part of a loot system, especially a dkp system rather than merit/council system, is to let people get crap even if it's not THE most optimal for killing quarm/tunat/omm/etc.
    Captain Video likes this.
  19. FranktheBank Augur

    Yerm, it's impossible to beat Underfoot unless you funnel tanks.
  20. Karreck Somebody


    Nope, great guilds with great people. Stop projecting your bad experiences onto others hun.