This is Not Just a Game!

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Angre, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. Dracones New Member

    Hate on Daybreak all you want, but it can't be easy to keep the lights on for these older games and to produce content with tools that are probably decades out of date.

    I'd love to play some City of Heroes, but NCSoft couldn't be bothered to keep that around. Meanwhile Daybreak's DC Universe, which I'm sure had fewer players than CoH ever did, is still online and putting out new episodes.
  2. That0neguy Augur

    Thats my point. You are hating on DBG and saying you are not playing, but those decisions in the game were made 10+ years ago.

    There are plenty of reasons to hate on DBG (server stability, recent decisions, etc) but that the game is too grindy and doesn't have solo content is def not one of them.
  3. Buri Augur

    One could easily argue that they succeeded, since the game is still around and making money.
  4. Brohg Augur

    One might wonder how much success it could have though if more of its proceeds had been reinvested in itself instead of supporting ground-up development of shorter lived games.
    Caell, Angahran and IblisTheMage like this.
  5. Toruch Fleshrot Augur

    "This is not just a game" , and I'm not playing.
  6. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    http://www.elitegamerslounge.com/home/progress/ shows 20 guilds that have beaten the current expansion's raids (RoS). If we assume that those guilds each have about 60 of the most active players (54-man raid limit), that means that only ~1200 players are even able to see the game's current expansion content. And it most certainly means that only those same 1200 players will be able to see the next expansion's raid content. Only 24 guilds have been able to see or beat the content from last year's expansion (EoK). So not only is the number people who are able to enjoy top level current content relatively small, it is also declining.

    In other words: DBG seems to be developing new expansions - at least all the raid content - for approximately 1200 people (which is not enough expansion sales to pay a single salary).

    I think there is a much larger player-base that consists of casual players. I suspect that a huge portion of that player-base consists of people who come back for a month or two at a time, and then leave for a long time (possibly years). That portion of the player-base will likely continue on for a long time, but it will be interesting to see how it is affected by aging/dying (you do not see very many young players in EQ).

    If I were Daybreak, I would focus more on making content that appealed to the returning players and raiders at the same time: specifically, upgrading Heroic Characters and creating tasks/missions/mechanics that would give incentive to play together (instead of the opposite). I think a lot of returning (and any new) players log in and give up very quickly, because the learning curve and the time sink are insurmountable barriers to having fun with other players.
    Chanteren likes this.
  7. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    Me too. By far the game I most long to play again.

    EDIT: But at least it prepared us for the inevitable off switch that comes to all online services.
  8. S33k3r Augur

    That's probably more people / guilds completing the expansion then those that completed GoD / UF when those expansions were current :)
    Brohg likes this.
  9. bigpapa Augur

    it would be so easy to do, make tier one easy and much harder as you progress. so anyone , could enjoy it , having dps check in tier one zones is so dumb.
  10. Brohg Augur

    and Omens, among others
  11. S33k3r Augur


    /facepalm... how could I forget OMM
  12. Alekzandre Augur

    "with a global player base of more than 420,000 people, EverQuest is one of the largest and most dynamic online fantasy worlds ever created. " Again as others have stated, Player Base and Subscriptions are not the same thing. You could have 2 million subscribers, and a Player base of 500k. Yes EQ has had more than a Million Subscribers at a time.
  13. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    I think you may have that backwards, but the confusion highlights how easy it is to "spin" words with uncertain definitions. The "player base" is likely the number of accounts that have ever been created to play EQ. The number of subscribers is how many people are currently subscribed (and will always be much lower).

    I have created 15-20 accounts (at least 6 of which are completely lost to me cause I created them on a hungover Sunday :D). All of those accounts count towards the "player base" count. However, I only pay for All Access on 4 accounts (and down to 2 accounts once I've finished the new expac's content, usually after a few months).

    That means that my "player base" number is a 500% over-inflated representation of my subscription number.

    And it also means that the "player base" number is a 2000% over-inflated representation of the actual number of real players, which is one. Just me.

    EDIT: I've confused myself with words! :rolleyes: I think it might be better to say that my "player base" number is 400% larger than my subscription number, and that the "player base" number is 1900% higher than the actual number of players (still just 1).

    Of course, if I were in a sales meeting trying to pitch the power of using terms like "player base", it might be better to say "5 times more" instead of "400% higher". Which one has the most impact? Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is...MARKETING.
  14. Alekzandre Augur

    Actually it is pretty simple. Player base means Player Base and Subscriptions mean Subscriptions. I can see this thread devolving. You will always have more Subscriptions than Player Base. Nothing mysterious or confusing about it.
  15. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    So you believe the marketing team chose to highlight the smaller number in their ads?
  16. S33k3r Augur

    From a press release in 2004.

    That makes slightly more interesting reading.

    When talking about EQ they mention player base of more than 420,000, however when they talk about SOE they mention they are a leader of onlines games with more than 700,000 active accounts. So if 700k was the number of active accounts that SOE had at that time then EQ did not have a million subscriptions.

    My memory is a bit hazy but didn't you have to buy the game + have a subscription to play EQ ? Did you have to buy each expansion seperately or just the latest (I joined in New Dawn promotion so no idea) ?
  17. complexication Kassina

    Okay, for starters let's dial it back with this whole 'institution' nonsense. Everquest is not a society. It is a game. Plain and Simple. To call it an institution would mean it was founded for religious, edcuational or social purposes. It's not a religion (and if it is you need to go outside), it's not educational, and although MMO standing for massively multiplayer, the social aspect of the game at it's barest form is nothing but a farce given the rampant influx of boxing. Don't like it? Bite me.

    Dedicated players are nice, yes. But a dedicated playerbase also requires a dedicated (and competent) development team, which given how players have had to fight tooth and nail to have the live servers looked at (and ignored in favor of the TLP servers), leaves a sour taste in everyone's mouth.

    Remember when Darkened Sea came out, and they decided at the time that imposing a xp nerf in expacs in ROF and older? Everyone got rightfully angry about it, and You know what finally broke the camel's back? A DEVELOPER TELLING ME THAT RAILROADING PLAYERS AND TELLING THEM WHERE TO PLAY AND HOW TO PLAY WAS ABSOLUTELY FAIR.

    Everquest is Not an AI, it is not Sentient. It. Is. A. Game.

    I'm all for keeping a game as long as possible, but It is not feasible anymore to pay 15 bucks a month (or 120 a year, and hyper-inflation of kronos) to simply play my shadowknight anymore. I loved how this gave me something to relate to my parents and I have made a couple of very good friends from it, but I'm not going to torture myself under the guise of some "cult" like nonsense to keep a dying game alive.

    Plus, at least in other MMO's I don't have to shell out money to have top-tier items. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  18. That0neguy Augur

    You really think player base does not mean subscriptions? As S33k3r already posted SOE accross all platforms only had 700k subscriptions active in 2004. So EQ was a subset of that. Probably right around the 420k mentioned in the other press release.


    Yes you had to have a subscription. The 1st month came with the game purchase. Can't remember if you had to buy each expansion or not but I believe so.



    That may be true now, but there was no F2P accounts back then. The number they are quoting is subscribers, because we already knew they had sold 2.5m copies which they could use the number of total accounts since each one would of come with an account potentially.
  19. S33k3r Augur

    The EQ wiki includes the following information on bundles - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest_expansions#Bundles_2 :-

    EverQuest Deluxe Edition 2001 March 6 (EU) The Ruins of Kunark, The Scars of Velius
    EverQuest Trilogy 2001 September 18 (NA) The Ruins of Kunark, The Scars of Velius
    EverQuest Gold Edition 2002 March 22 (EU)
    2002 November 4 (NA) The Ruins of Kunark - Shadows of Luclin (EU)
    The Ruins of Kunark - The Planes of Power (NA)[26]
    EverQuest New Dawn[a] 2002 November 22 (EU) The Ruins of Kunark - Shadows of Luclin
    EverQuest Evolution 2003 August 25 (NA) The Ruins of Kunark - The Legacy of Ykesha
    EverQuest Platinum 2004 July 26 (NA) The Ruins of Kunark - Gates of Discord
    EverQuest Chronicles: Volume One 2004 September 20 (NA) The Ruins of Kunark, The Shadows of Luclin, The Legacy of Ykesha
    EverQuest Titanium Edition 2006 January 10 (NA) The Ruins of Kunark - Depths of Darkhollow
    EverQuest: The Anniversary Edition 2007 April 16 (NA) The Ruins of Kunark - The Buried Sea

    So if you were an existing member you would have to buy each expansion to keep current but new accounts/players could take advantage of a bundle. Some bundles did not include the latest expansion or the new expansion came out shortly after the bundle was released.

    I started played with a free copy of New Dawn that was part of a promotion for new UBIsoft servers but I had to buy PoK as it was not part of the bundle.

    p.s. grrrr, table layout lost /posting skill fail
  20. Alekzandre Augur

    Yes, actually, sometimes you don't want people to know. I will leave that up to you to figure out the possible reasons.