Third Party Software - What's cheating?

Discussion in 'The Newbie Zone' started by Trebla7th, Sep 3, 2020.

  1. Trebla7th New Member

    I know the old adage, if you have to ask, it's probably not OK... but I've recently been accused of cheating because I was using a stopwatch alarm (an app on my phone, technically) to time a spawn so that I could be ready within a few seconds of when it spawned. Even though this functionality is available in game using /alarm.

    I would have never even thought that someone might consider this cheating, but apparently someone did.

    So I ask, specifically in regards to EverQuest. How does a person know if what they're doing is cheating? Are there explicit rules that enumerate what's considered cheating? I've seen "No unintended gameplay"... but that just pushes the question to be "What's unintended gameplay?" Is using a stopwatch intended? What about a log monitoring tool (GINA)? What about a program that intercepts network traffic and interprets it?

    Certainly, I don't think using a stopwatch is cheating... even though that's technically "third party software", so the definition can't be as simple as "No Third Party Software." And obviously I know a packet sniffer is definitely "cheating"... but where does DPG draw the line? Where do most players draw the line?

    I'm not calling anyone out for doing this... more of a theoretical question/discussion because I was just floored by the whole "stopwatch" comment.
  2. code-zero Augur

    There is an in game timer function. I don't recall the command offhand but I think it's /alarm. If there's a function in game that allows you to set a timer then using a stopwatch is just a kludgy way to do something that's allowed
  3. Trebla7th New Member

    But what's not allowed? That's the question. You can only have one instance of /alarm running at a time... is it then not allowed to use TWO stopwatches because that's not something that you can do in game?
  4. Tatanka Augur

    Anyone accusing you of cheating for keeping track of the timing for in-game events should be put immediately on ignore, for fear that their sheer stupidity might drag you down, as well ;)
  5. code-zero Augur

    What I am getting at is that running a timer of any sort isn't cheating. Even it it's the timer on your microwave!
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  6. Smokezz The Bane Crew

    LOL... sounds like you play on a TLP server. Where utter nonsense is the name of the game. Using a stop watch to time something is most definitely not against the rules. Someone is being stupid, and you should ignore them. The stupid meter just exploded with that suggestion that it's "cheating".
  7. Trebla7th New Member

    I understand that timing things isn’t cheating. I very much ignored the person who leveled the accusation. That was just background information that got me pondering exactly what IS considered cheating. I couldn’t come up with a solid answer other than the old pornography definition. “I don’t know how to define it, but I know it when I see it.”

    If we want to get lulz at the person who thought a stopwatch was cheating, that’s fine. But I started this thread because I was interested in how DPG defines cheating (I don’t see a definition). Also interested in community perspectives. Are there specific programs, or even in game actions that are cheating? Or is this like morality or comedy, where cheating is entirely subjective?
  8. Duder Grand Poobah Troll

  9. Ghubuk Augur

    A person that was serious in asking the question would use their real in game name.
  10. CatsPaws I don't like titles

    DPG defines it as anything they want it to be at anytime they want it to be and to anyone they want it to be etc. There is no black and white, line by line rules. Other than what you can find posted down below in the yellow print at the end of these posts that says TERMS OF SERVICE.

    Read it and if you find it in there then don't do it.

    Pay special attention to Rule #10 CHEATING and the line that says:

    Daybreak reserves the right to suspend or permanently terminate the account of, and restrict access to the Daybreak Games by, any end user that engages in any form of cheating, or that attempts in any way to disable, circumvent, or tamper with any anti-hacking or anti-cheating components or features of any Daybreak Game(s).

    As you can see, once again cheating in not clearly defined but stuff about tampering etc is.

    It never had been and I doubt it ever will be. Think of them like your parents or a police officer - if they say it is then it is. And really, come on I highly doubt there is any innocent suspensions happening.
    Ghubuk likes this.
  11. Flatchy Court Jester

    If I have trained my cat to kill the ph for me is that considered cheating? he is ok hitting auto attack but he quite often forgets to loot.
    Bardy McFly and code-zero like this.
  12. Tatanka Augur

    Are you kidding? Obviously, it's cheating. You're the only person who's ever been able to train a cat!

    Gherig and Lurikeen like this.
  13. Xerzist Augur

    I mean, depends on the server? I think the TLP have slightly different rules. Pretty sure AFK killing is a nono across the board, using software to AFK kill, you are playing with potential fire if you can't come back reasonably.

    Now, if you roll a gnome... you should be banned. Because gross.
    code-zero likes this.
  14. Stymie Lorekeeper

    The only thing they consider cheating is not being at the keyboard when they contact you. Beyond that, the sky is the limit. Go full on cheat-mode. They don't care even a little bit.
  15. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    Check the daybreak knowledge base read what daybreak says on things then make your own decision. The thing about what anyone I guess including me says here is you are the one who will get banned or not them.

    Catpaws makes some good points and does so by quoting what Daybreak says. Read what daybreak says then decide for yourself.
  16. Vumad Augur

    One could argue that the /alarm was added to notify you when to end your playtime and using it to time spawns is an exploit. It's a dumb argument, but it could be made.

    A player on Crossout accused us of cheating because we were all running the "same" (similar) build. It's against the rules and is bannable. Except the game has an exhibition that allows the uploading and downloading of vehicle builds.

    Some people are just sore. Ignore them.

    You will get very few direct answers about what is cheating. There are a lot of threads on this topic to read. They best information you will get is that no AFK play of any kind is allowed. Nothing is allowed that modifies the game (warping) and nothing is allowed that sniffs around to give you information you should not have (mob location, loot on the mob before it dies, etc).

    Bruh. Don't tell people about my drinking bird. It's how I get those phat lewtz.
    Bardy McFly, Nennius and Duder like this.
  17. Drencrom Lorekeeper

    There are timestamps in-game for the chat window. When I kill a long respawn mob, sometimes I memorize the time, or in a pinch, I'll type the hour and minute into group chat (I'm boxing). Then I watch the spam for it's timestamps, and, using very complex maths, deduce when the mob is due to spawn. No extra tool of any kind was used. I don't even type /time.

    I had a guy in EQ accuse me of using a third party program to know when each mob would spawn. This took place in Riftseekers, where you can run in one of several large circles and kill in the same order as the last spawn. Clearly, I was still up to no good. It was an Ogre Zerker from some guild called Machina shines or something.
  18. Daimos5 Journeyman

    Was this guy a shaman? I had one try to KS my camp once when I was on my enc/cleric duo with a pet. Got all bent out of shape when I cleared the camps over and over with him trying to DPS race me and losing. Accused me of using some kind of Show 3rd party software.

    He accused me of cheating when he noticed that I came and sat in the room with him whenever it was time for mobs to pop. I had been sitting at the camp for like 7 hours, of course I knew when things were going to spawn.

    Using a timer to track spawn times is something I've been doing since 1999. Back then I had a kitchen timer and now i'm using my cell phone, but it's always been like that. Don't know how it can actually be any kind of cheating, it's how the game is designed! Overall, at least in classic/kunark zones, spawn variance is very small.
  19. Vumad Augur

    Sounds like an exploit.
  20. Varedis New Member

    Considering that there are 20+ man bot armys on "True Box" servers on TLPs that have been going untouched since the beginning... I dont truly believe they care either way lol
    Andarriel likes this.

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