The stigma Wizards have

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by FrodeEQ, May 19, 2021.

  1. Lejaun Augur

    I have a feeling there are going to be a TON of wizards on Mischief and Thornblade.
  2. Neuro Lorekeeper

    Doubt it. They can’t solo worth a damn, not like mages and necros. And they aren’t OP like Enchanters are, so I think more people go with those three over Wizard.
  3. Roean Journeyman

    I'm leaning wizard since we only have a month to put up with Plane of Sky at 50 and not having lures. Also you don't have whole raids constantly bugging you for buffs, coths, mod rods or mana pumps.
    Bardy McFly likes this.
  4. Niskin Clockwork Arguer

    Wizard was a fun class to group with my Mage on the first night. Dropping bombs constantly. Blue = send pet. White/Yellow = nuke it down. I lost so many pets trying hard yellows, but almost always won, just lost the pet as the mob died in most cases.

    I didn't even buy the Wizard any spells until level 4, that level 1 cold nuke just kept delivering. Finally got a rain spell before I logged off, gonna try it out today.
  5. Neuro Lorekeeper

    Lvl 4 nuke isn’t good until almost lvl 8 or so. Lvl 5 nuke, Flame Bolt, is great though when it needs to die NOW!
  6. Niskin Clockwork Arguer

    Good to know, thanks. I ended up using that level 1 cold nuke all the way until level 6 and it's still great. Will check out the level 5 bolt today. :)
  7. Doranur_Aleguzzler Augur

    The stigma wizards have was broken several times last night.

    "Oh crap, we have more than we can handle, run for the zone!"

    Me - "Hold up, I am almost full mana, and I just got me a huge nuke."

    Proceeds to burn down one or more, causing the group to realize we actually got this.

    "Hey I can't get any closer to this corner to target the mob I want to pull without aggroing the whole room, prepare for a big pull."

    Me - "Hold up, and be ready to /assist me when I tell you." /cast eye_of_zomm

    Druid healer draws aggro, but because he's boxed, reaction time is reduced.

    Me - Nuke big and sit to draw aggro, then root it away from the druid.

    If you find yourself grouped with a wizard that perpetuates the stereotype, do your self a favor. Speak up to correct it, or replace it with a wizard that will be a much more active part of the group.
  8. Dune New Member

    For classic EQ, Shock of Lightning used to have an "interrupt" component which was likely a slight push back effect. It was very effective at interrupting spell casting during PvP on Rallos Zek and could be applied to scenarios where a mob is trying to gate or heal for non-PvP. This class really seemed like a last second afterthought when EQ went live in 1999. They struggled to have an identity initially but found a niche in burst DPS. It's the well timed nuke or two at the critical moment that defines the DPS contribution of this class.

    The staff of temperate flux is a must have with many hidden uses. It is essentially insta-cast and can be spammed. Looks like red faerie fire and is great for pulling as well as the slight fire/cold debuff. I was able to pull Phinigel with this back in the day. If soloing (while LFG), the root/bolt combination worked well at the earlier levels. At mid to higher levels the bolts disappear and become the mainstay of the mages instead in addition to their rains.

    For Kunark, quad kiting with Atols group snare and the Pillar series was effective at the giant fort in Burning Woods and raptors in Timorous Deep. The draught series is also way more efficient than previous nukes. For dragons you will be lucky to get 6 or 7 lures so they need to be well timed. The nuke robe from VP (while not great with long cast time) still gave a free nuke for a very mana deprived class. Rain plus Concussion, rinse repeat was effective when mob mezzed crowd control wasn't an issue.

    These are my recollections of this class. They got better as the game progressed with a "golden age" of sorts in The Serpents Spine with insta-nukes. I would agree that the best nuke isn't necessarily the "biggest" nuke. Look for the best mana/damage ratios.
    Doranur_Aleguzzler likes this.
  9. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    This thread also convinced me to go wizard on Thornblade.
  10. Bardy McFly Augur

    If I ever went back to a single toon play on a server I'd give Wizard a shot just to do something completely different. I don't even put them in my box crews because I don't like micromanaging mana and agro. I don't need that Big D nuke DPS, rather I build my groups around survivability and sustained DPS. My biggest worry with a wizard, especially if not boxing, would be going out of mana and feeling like a useless pile.
  11. Doranur_Aleguzzler Augur

    It's no different than micromanaging mana on a healer, or going out of mana and feeling like a useless pile on a healer.
  12. Vetis Lorekeeper

    This thread motivated me so hard I rolled two wizards. I cast a nuke per wizard and everything gets one shot.

    So far so good.
    Bardy McFly and Mepps like this.
  13. jiri_ Augur

    The one difference is that, at least in very early eras, the healer being OOM is an excuse for the whole group to take a break. Grab a drink, check Twitter, hit the head, whatever. The wizard being AFK means nothing unless there's a named, all hands on deck scenario. So you have slightly more time in that useless burden state on a DPS caster than you do on a main healer.
    Bardy McFly likes this.
  14. Kahna Augur

    Out of curiosity I rolled a wizard. My crew and I are all super busy for the next month so we decided to skip classic raiding (maybe a few GDKP raids) and just level a bunch of characters. I was going to go necro main like always but this thread inspired me. So far I can't really say that I see the problem with wizards. It is still early days, yes, but I can definitely keep up and surpass the rest of the non-charming DPSers and without dropping below 50-70% mana. Which gives me enough mana to delete a mob or two on a bad pull.

    I may not stick with it long term, as I like to have a lot of tools at my disposal and wizzies are very much a one trick pony. I will still be leveling the necro, but for now it seems fun enough. I kinda want to see if I can do higher raid boss DPS on the wizzy than I can on the necro. I lost very few fights in classic-Velious on the necro (well, minus those fights I couldn't land spells on, but wizzy has those problems too). Excited to see what I can do with the wizard.
  15. Ishbu Augur

    Wizards are not underrated in classic, there is no stigma about them, they just dont shine at all yet.

    Look up the spell data. Mages nuke for almost the exact same damage, only they have a pet doing a hell of a lot more than just sitting and meditating.

    Give it a couple expansions and wizards get really good, but lets not act like there is some over looked amazing thing wizards can do in classic that nobody realized.
  16. Gnomie Denser than most

    I'd say it's less of an issue with wizards being incredibly underpowered, and more of the other caster classes being incredibly OP in classic.

    Mages / Necros get pets which can continue DPS'ing while they regain mana. Mage nukes are similar in power to a lot of wizard nukes. (Wizards get ice though). Enchanters can charm and CC; and with that, you dont' even need to nuke.

    There is a reason all the level 50 box crews out there run 4 mages, chanter, and cleric. I'm playing a wizard on Mischief, and enjoying it...but having played mages in the past, I definitely feel underpowered by comparison.
    Skuz likes this.
  17. FrodeEQ Journeyman

    So I rolled one on Mischief and I cannot see at all where the stigma comes from. Granted I am well geared and I think I play it smart always scratching the range limit of my rains, cast on groupies or corpses to avoid mezzes. In the majority of groups I am constantly top DPS, often surpassing enchanter charm mobs.

    I do not really have mana issues, again seeking efficiency at maximum level. Granted at classic launch everyone is not as geared as normal or during second or third generation alts, but still that is where there is power for the Wizard. In short; the stigma is wrong. On multiple occasions people in pugs, as I leveled, said to not understand why Wizards have such a bad name in terms of group viability.

    In a hate group today I parsed and I was constant on top dps wise, and was at 50% to 70% mana all the time. Someone in group handed me a conc pot, as in trying to say stop slacking, a testimony of people thinking a wiz a 20% mana constantly is a good one. Ignorance is bliss.
  18. Rauven Augur

    There's a bit of armchair raidleading going on in this thread. People yammering about how they specifically tailor their pick up exp groups like they're putting together a FFXIV Savage Static.

    That's not how like 90% of pickup groups go. If they need a 6th and the slot is a DPS. Yeah they'll likely take a wizard, or whomever speaks up first that fulfills the role they are looking for. In vanilla.. you could fill the spot with a tank or healer and be fine. Or not fill it.

    Point is, wizards are never going to make a the spot not worth filling with them. And hardly no one is going to deny them a group for it. Those who feel the need to be so specific with their pick up exp group likely have an issue they themselves are causing that need the rest of the group to shoulder them up for it. If that's the case, look for another group to join.

    As for stigmas about afking. I've seen this. I've seen wizards blow their mana and go afk. I've seen clerics do it, and paladins, and shadowknights, and mages, and druids, and warriors.. well they would blow their mana then afk if they could. Point is, everyone in the group afks at some point. That's Everquest for you. Its slow, its easy, and half the group can (and will be) afk and still succeed.

    Are their better classes for certain content? Absolutely. That's going to be true in any era of the game. But I find it ironic when people crunch the numbers for the most excellent efficient pickup exp group. The ones filled by stay at home dads that have to afk for 20 minutes at a time to look after their kids (nothing against this, but just pointing out that its hurting your DPS! lol :D <this is a joke just in case someone doesn't get it>). The ones filled by blokes who may be trying a class for the first time. The ones filled by people leveling up weapon skills and missing every other hit, or spell skills and fizzling away a mana bar every 10 minute. The ones filled with keyboard turners (well its EQ.. this might be fine because of how the game is) and people who click their spells to cast them (which is funny because I'd wager some of the 'hardcores' in this thread are doing this one!).

    But if you don't want to use wizards in your static group. That's great. But if you're making threads and posts trying to justify your reasons for it. You might want to get more experienced at the game to boost that confidence up a tad before entering a static. Usually when people join static groups for the best and most efficient exp gain possible don't need to justify their choices and decisions to the general population.
  19. Doranur_Aleguzzler Augur

    We had a discussion in my group the other night, about wizards, mana, and aggro management. I said that especially before active aggro management tools become available in Kunark (Concussion spell) then the most important job I have, after bringing down the pain, is managing my own aggro. I then proved my point, and on the next pull I expended as much mana through nuking the target as I could, and not only pulled aggro off the tank, made it difficult for him to pull it back. That also put a lot of pressure on the healer to keep me up, because I was a lot squishier than the tank.

    A wizard properly managing his aggro, is also helping the rest of the team. The tank doesn't have to work harder to try to regain aggro. The healer doesn't have to expend more mana healing the wizard and risk taking aggro as well. The group as a whole can experince less down time between pulls as a result.
  20. Larsen Journeyman

    That's not how it usually goes unless there are no other classes available. In most cases, when a group needs another DPS, they check the /lfg tool and pick what they prefer. That's pretty much always going to be a mage, monk, enchanter (if charm is possible) or a necro/rogue if none of those three are available. Few will willingly take a wizard if other classes are available, unless it's a friend or guildie. That's simply the way people play. There's no sense trying to claim otherwise.