The stigma Wizards have

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by FrodeEQ, May 19, 2021.

  1. Thez69 Elder

    did wiz on a couple tlps

    if your leveling strategy is to just put up lfg and wait for a random group you will have at least some moderate wait times, not as bad as some classes but your def not the top of most people's list when looking for a dps

    id recommend signing up with some guild pre launch, guildies will invite you much quicker than the random population, and obviously try to play well?

    use rains if possible, use bolts ideally if not, dont use tishans clash its a trap

    your normal magic dd's have a stun component for interrupting gates/heals i usually have a lower lvl one or two on my bar

    (any ae thats not a rain is garbage, dont use it)
    Delphwind and Skuz like this.
  2. WokeCat Augur

    A class that is required to zone into the Plane of Hate and Plane of Sky is the worst class in the game? For a lot of content Magicians can’t even use their pet and would have been better off playing Wizard.

    I can’t imagine anyone very seriously thinking that Wizards are worse than Rogues. Wizards can quad kite and easily solo Giants. Rogues can’t even solo level 30 green cons at level 50, and they get out damaged by Necromancer pets EASILY.

    What does a rogue do that is good in classic? Even their CR is garbage because for many zones regular invis is superior in every way because you don’t move at a snails pace and most mobs can’t see through it anyways.
  3. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Don't compare any class's dps to Monks because they are horribly overpowered on TLP and stay that way for a very long time.
    Mages do better in classic as their pets are strong & Necros are just very strong on mana regen so can maintain strong damage, their dps on on short fights is pretty terrible though.
    Wizards are not a bad class but a lot depends on how well you can work around their limitations, the difference between a bad wizard & a good one can be pretty big, it's not skill but knowledge that separates the two.
    Xanathol and Delphwind like this.
  4. a_librarian Augur

    How significant is the Mana Robe for a wizard anyway?
  5. Sycopata Elder

    In my opinion a good wizard is the one that puts a single nuke per mob, but it is the nuke that kills it, saving having to use snare / root. A good wizard is the one who knows how to calculate what% he has to put his dps to for the mob to die, without wasting much damage.
    Vinlail, Tachyon and code-zero like this.
  6. error Augur

    Can't speak for wizard, but Mana Robe was a huge benefit as a mage on Mangler. So many raid targets in the first 5 or 6 expansions are marathon fights you'll be getting in dozens upon dozens of clicks in during time that would otherwise be wasted (spell GCD, pacing casts to control threat generation, etc...). Of course, it's going to depend on your raid comp, if you're running full raids stacked with high dps classes then even those marathon fights will go fast enough that they'll end before your mana pool is a concern, in which case you'd be better off burning harder and using spell GCDs for something like concussion clicky.

    Outside of raids the Mana Robe becomes extremely useful once mounts become a thing since you can click while medding, assuming you're exping somewhere you can mount. That's about 40 mana/tick if you're spam clicking which during Luclin would be close to a 50% increase in mana regen.
  7. code-zero Augur

    This is the strategy though I'd add that dropping that nuke so that mob is down to 1% so you don't waste any damage and mana is the best. Almost as good is dropping the mob so that it runs and then snaring so it stands there while melee finish it off. Doing a full burn on a mob that's 98% in camp is not a good strategy
    Tweakfour17 and jiri_ like this.
  8. jiri_ Augur

    If Snare lands reliably, bursting runners to 20% is better since it's more mana-efficient for the healer, I'd think. That might make a difference in a camp where your healer is a Dru or Shm in one of those level ranges where your best heal is only a couple points better than the mob's max hit. Also depends on which snare is being used, whether it stops the mob completely (the first two Darkness spells don't), and how much mana it costs. As with all things it's slightly more context-dependent than 'cast one big boom per fight' makes it seem.
    code-zero and Skuz like this.
  9. Elabone Augur

    Frost storm does ~1500 damage for 271 mana.
    Including cast time it averages 100dps.
    Compared to ice comet which does 700 damage for 203 mana.
    If you, or your wizard in your group are casting single target nukes, you have no reason to even comment in this thread.

    With clarity buffs you get something like 40 mana a tick. If it takes you 20 seconds to kill every mob. You're only experiencing a net loss of 150 mana per mob.

    These are conservative estimates. If you think a wizard isn't better than a rogue. You're silly.
    If you think wizards don't have a place in groups. You're silly.
    Wizards are perfectly fine if you know what you're doing.
    Doze likes this.
  10. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Agents of Change don't require porters so a wizard is not required to port there but to farm ow for armor or if you're in an ow raid guild, then yes.

    What content? Motm makes it harder for a mage with their pets but the amount of content where you can't use a pet is almost zero. In fact there are ways to use a mage pet on some encounters along with Motm to your advantage to pre build aggro.
    The sample size is what's probably messing people up here, very few rogues on TLP and alot of very bad wizards who nuke themselves either to death or OOM and then go afk.
  11. Neuro Elder

    Having played a wiz almost my entire time in EQ, I have to agree that while straight up they aren’t the best for dps, they make up for it in other ways. A *good* wizard is an asset to a group. The difference between a good one and a bad one is subtle but distinct. A good wiz keeps his mana around 80%, doesn’t blow his load trying for numbers. A good wizard earns his keep not when things go well, but when things go pear shaped. Was there an accidental overpull? Wizard should have close to a full mana bar to start helping to emergency burn down mobs, root, etc. Pull getting out of hand? Wizard is there to evac.
    Don’t let your experiences with mediocre wizards sour you on the entire class. You might need a port to Hate some day. ;)
    -----Cinexa----- and Tweakfour17 like this.
  12. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    I used to have a wizard friend.
  13. Lejaun Augur

    But that was long ago.
    Skuz likes this.
  14. Delphwind Augur

    Pretty much this.

    Use your rains, even on single target. They are surprisingly mana efficient, and with half way decent gear, and maybe some mana regen in group you should be able to sustain casting 2 rains on every pull in most groups. On a new TLP when people are crap geared, this should put you at, or very near the top of the parse on every pull.

    It boggles my brain when I group with a wizard and they are almost always on the bottom of the parse, medding constantly oom, or just sitting with full mana. Don't let the stigma the community has fool you, wizzy is a great class, even in classic.
    Skuz likes this.
  15. Delphwind Augur

    "Then he took an arrow to the knee."
  16. Accipiter Old Timer


    ... as long as no mezzed mobs are nearby. ;)
    code-zero likes this.
  17. jiri_ Augur

    Even if there's no mezzed mobs, rains either kind of require single mobs or for all the other mobs to be clustered together and either tanked or controlled in some way. Casting a rain and having two mobs peel away from the pack to come whack you is a good way to take a controlled, easy situation and make it a bit more spicy and a lot more chaotic. Ironically, the more mobs are in camp, the less valuable the AEs become in a lot of situations.
  18. Bobbybick Only Banned Twice

    I think a big problem is that a lot of people newer to the wizard class believe that higher level spells are just better without doing the math on how efficient they are. In truth a wizard needs something like 5 nuke spells going from 1-50 and you end up using a lower level one the majority of the time unless you just really need to dump mana.
  19. jiri_ Augur

    I know it's unlikely but, with the addition of ratios as a specific stat for weapons, I'd like to see DPM listed in spell descriptions. Both it and ratios are simple division of obviously available factors; the only difference is that DPM numbers are slightly less intuitive to do in your head, especially in early eras.
    Tweakfour17 likes this.
  20. Ownanat Journeyman

    I played a wizard main on agnarr through classic and had very little trouble finding groups. Every now and then it would take awhile to find a group but I feel it's like that for alot or classes.

    I'd just do one nuke per mob per pull, usually at 40-60% mob health that would either finish it off or make it slowly start running for everyone else to finish off. Pretty simple stuff.