The sleeper & progression.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by ARCHIVED-goonem, Jul 31, 2011.

  1. ARCHIVED-goonem Guest

    Does the sleeper have to be awaken to unlock the vote toward luclin? I think it would be ideal if the sleeper had no impact on the timer so that guilds are not forced to chose between cool loots and progression.
  2. ARCHIVED-Locnar Guest

    lol you think the four warders wont be HTed to death within days of velious? The atmosphere on the TLP servers are highly toxic and only one guild will see the four original warders.
  3. ARCHIVED-goonem Guest

    Be less of a fool. I do not care whom or how these mobs are killed. I am first curious if awakening the sleeper is required to unlock the luclin vote and second suggesting that it shouldn't be, if it is.
  4. ARCHIVED-Mierlen Guest

    Locnar wrote:
    As it has been, as it will always be. and as it should be.

    And yes waking the sleeper is necessary.
  5. ARCHIVED-Dupre-MIM Guest

    Locnar wrote:
    This statement in and of itself shows why you truely know nothing about what is going on at the top level of the TLP.
    Harmtouch was nerfed to 1200 dmg at level 60. I don't know about you, but I'd rather take a 20 monks down there than 200 SK's.
    Second, there aren't going to be that many ST Keys dropping that we can have all 4 warders down in under a week. Keep in mind even on combine it took about 18 players to kill the last warder, maybe a bit more. At an average rate of 8 keys a week, that sounds like a 2 - 3 week ordeal. Perhaps less, but it won't be within a few days of Velious going live.
    Further more, the sleeper likely won't be unlocked right away. The reason is the original warders dropped loot that everyone wants. Once the sleeper is woken up, that loot is gone. I personally envision the top guilds milking the warders for a couple of weeks at least to try and get some of that loot.
    About the only part of that statement that can be twisted to be correct is that only 1 guild will see the four warders. The truth is 1 guild on each server will control when the sleeper is woken. Whether that guild chooses to do it at their first opportunity, or wait until later and risk someone else doing it is the decision they will have to make.
    I too agree, it's the way it should be. Besides, he doesn't drop any loot so no sense in leaving him up. :)
  6. ARCHIVED-Dumpty_Xev Guest

    Why would any guild capable of dropping the warders, give a darn about some avg. 50 hp/mana loots from warders when then can be on to Luclin anf in VT all that much faster getting way better stuff? If you want to proc avatar, Ancients still drop weapons.
  7. ARCHIVED-Vicart Guest

    I'm not speaking for my guild, but to awaken the sleeper before all of the armor quest are completed would be pointless. As for the loot, the gnome mask will always be sought after, the monk robe is better than anything from luclin I believe for monks or at least comparable, and then of course the SoD as well. I don't believe the SoD will be the original procing at level one, but it's still one of the best weapons for the era.
    Velious best monk bp iir:
    Luclin best monk bp iir:
    So if for nothing else, this robe is worth milking it for at least a few rounds.
  8. ARCHIVED-goonem Guest

    Vicart wrote:
    I think the risk of not awakening the sleeper as soon as possible is boring your future not-yet raider applicants to retirement. I imagine a solid number of people are simply not chosing to raid yet because it pretty much terrible until luclin and beyond. There is such few things to do in velious and probably the majority thing to acomplish in velious is new gear which are incommon drops from mobs with 55-80k hitpoints; fun for a couple days, not fun for 90+.
  9. ARCHIVED-Vicart Guest

    I don't think you completely understand how it works. If someone awakens the sleeper before all of the armor sets are complete it does not speed up the lockout. Once the armor sets are complete (which I think took the longest on sleeper/combine) then and only then does awakening the sleeper have an effect on the server.
    It will also depend on the repop timers, because as we all know Trak was not on a 2 day timer on live. If the Warders are on 2 day cycles as well then farming them for 3 spawns does not make a difference. If we land in an odd rotation of SoE's cycle then possibly farming them for close to two weeks also will not make a difference. It's all about how things fall, and based on that it will be determined (I'm assuming this atm) when the Sleeper would be awakened. Though for any guild to do it prematurely would only make the rare drops from the warders ever rarer or non existant.
  10. ARCHIVED-Dopple Guest

    goonem wrote:
    I don't think this could be farther from the truth... If you're interested in raiding, even a little, you're already in a raiding guild of some form on TLP. I can't think of a single person I've met who rolled on the TLP for PoP+ content. I'd argue that the sooner you wake the sleeper, the more potential applicant's you're going to alienate. A lot of players rerolled TLP in order to experience events they might have missed the first time around. There's only really a single event you could have completely missed... Heck, every time a new server has been launched post Velious, there's been a healthy number of people who rerolled specifically for the Sleeper event.
    That being said, I think most top tier raiders care more about content and server-firsts than loot. You're going to see a single guild farm ST... right up to the point where they can either unlock Luclin or a rival guild becomes capable up killing the warders. There won't be any more thought put into it than that.
    As for removing it as a progression requirement... It's the single most important "progression" arc in all of Velious. ;p It wouldn't matter anyway. For the reason stated above, the top guild on each server will wake the sleeper simply to experience the content before anyone else can compete.
  11. ARCHIVED-goonem Guest

    You're correct vicart, I didn't fully understand. Sleeper isn't much of an issue when armor sets are all required to be completed.

    Dopple wrote:
    I think you're very wrong. It's difficult to believe you can play on either server and suggest this is what players wanted. Even more, now that we live in the environment that we in part created, to suggest that this is the highlight of everquest raiding is completely ridiculous. Raiding becomes forgettin' great in a few expansions. Players did not come back for this to sit at mobs while 19 year olds talk trash to them for 12 hours for 1 piece of loot. The servers are fun now, but it isn't because of the raids.
  12. ARCHIVED-Dopple Guest

    goonem wrote:

    I'm not sure you even read my post. The one that was part of the "to wake the Sleeper or not/when" discussion... If you did, I think your reading comprehension skills are terrible. Please pick out the spots in my post where I suggest the current atmosphere on TLP is what people "wanted" and where I state that Kunark socking is the "highlight" of Everquest raiding. Thanks for trying to put a new and refreshing spin on my post though.
    I stated that raiders, …wait for it... join raid guilds, and that the people I know came back primarily for Classic through Luclin/PoP. That being said, we can move on to your oh so eloquent rant.
    You're big issue seems to be reading your chat window while waiting for a raid target to spawn. To top that off, it sounds like you're not getting your fair share of the loot! Sad panda. :(
    You can't take the socking out of EQ without severe GM intervention. The kind of intervention required would remove all competition for spawns. (Read: Destroy the Everquest that brings back fond memories for most raiders.) Might as well just have a GM hang around and spawn raid mobs for each guild when requested. /petition "Ready for Dain now plz. k thx." Maybe we could just skip the raid target altogether. GMs can just hand loot directly to the worthy.
  13. ARCHIVED-WyreWintermute Guest

    Dopple wrote:
    (note that most of this is reinforcing your post a few above this Dopple.. just that I am waaaay to lazy to fill in the parts of your quote that this is really all about :p )
    The whole aspect of "the Everquest that brings back fond memories for raiders" is a bit lost on me. The fond memories came from exploring, finding a mob, having it whoop you, and trying to figure out how to beat it. Almost all of that is lost on these progression servers. Everyone knows where all the best items/quests are. Everyone knows where the raid mobs are, what they drop, what they do, and how to beat them. As a former raider... that was most of the fun.
    I remember falling an expansion behind, beating a raid, and.... the atmosphere in the guild was just meh.. weee.. loot. Totally different from being one of the first guilds on the server or one of the "first" guilds to take it down (I'm talking within a reasonable time frame from the actual first kills.. generally there were 2-4 within hours/minutes of each other.. then a half dozen or more within the next few days, and a larger portion of end raiders within the month etc...).
    Taking that boss down before loot/SS's were posted on Allah's.. and before the strats were leaked out. That is what filled guild chat with cheers of excitement that can't be posted on the forums due to profanity rules. :p
    Anyone who "raids" for that nostalgia are just blowing smoke really. The entire experience is for nostalgia... I think the OP has a somewhat valid point... Reading the TLP forums since they opened... and all the senseless drama henceforth, I mean really? I think there are more people who'd like to play on those servers to experience content they may have missed, or get a taste of it all outweighs the ones who want to burn through the content.
    I'll put my money where my mouth is.. and we'll see how much drama arises when ST/NToV gets locked down by a few guilds. I HIGHLY doubt that there will be NToV/ST rotations as we had back in Velious originally. I'm sure the drama will expound when a guild feels their "hold" on ST gets threatened and they off the last warder to hold a monopoly on the few specialty items. It is going to happen. *shrug*
    Goonem makes some really good points. Back in 1999/2000 sure there was competition for raid mobs. there were the decent people and the unsavory. It was nothing like the atmosphere on these progression servers.. and I'd be willing to bet that removal of TLP tracking would cut some of it down (though people would make threads/web sites just for it).
    The worst part of this thread is the near instant derailment. The OP from goonem has merit. The rest has degraded as much of the TLP topics tend to. =/
    In the original EQ series... Luclin could be live before the sleeper was awakened on any server. Heck.. Luclin could have launched before anyone even got a keyed raid force for ST (ok never happened but the not awakening the sleeper sure did).
    The sleeper being awakened has no bearing on "progression". You don't kill the sleeper.. you kill the four warders. This can be managed so that the "awakened" ST didn't have to come to pass until players wanted it. That is not an option if it is a requirement for TLP servers. It really shouldn't ahve to be, and that is a decent point to consider.
  14. ARCHIVED-Nadia-Brell Guest

  15. ARCHIVED-Dopple Guest

    WyreWintermute wrote:
    I don't think anyone who raids TLP came back to the beginning of a 12 year old game for exploration, as it would be pointless. As a raider, I came back to TLP because I was tired of instanced content. I came back for a little of the drama, and a lot of direct competition. I'm not sure I understand why anyone would roll on the TLP in order to set up rotations for 10+ year old raid content. That being said, it's not exactly how I envisioned it... I'm having a blast with my guild-mates regardless, however.

    WyreWintermute wrote:
    I fail to see how discussing the atmosphere on TLP is derailing a TLP thread talking about when/if to wake the sleeper. If you think it is, then goonem's doing a pretty good job derailing his own post.

    WyreWintermute wrote:
    It's a progression milestone because it's the most significant event of the entire expansion. I honestly fail to see how this can be lost on people. We're "progressing" through expansions, completing each before the next is unlocked.
  16. ARCHIVED-Nuffan_Tuit Guest

    Dopple wrote:
    Only you may want to consider that awakening the sleeper (killing the four warders) is the ONLY event in all of EQ that once it is done never repops...all other events are repeatable...
    For that reason alone it deserves some consideration to be removed from the must do list...
    Not that it really matters...pretty sure the TOP guilds on both servers will farm it until they have any form of competition then kill them all to prevent others from seeing (farming) it so whether it is a required kill or not, sleeper will be awakened...and sooner rather than later...
  17. ARCHIVED-Nadia-Brell Guest

    even if it wasnt a requirement
    top guilds would kill it anyhow - for lack of anything better to do while waiting for next expansion to release
  18. ARCHIVED-Dupre-MIM Guest

    Nadia-Brell wrote:
    I disagree. If it were not a progression requirement, we would benefit in no way, shape or form by waking it until we had farmed the warders to a point where we were happy with the loot received. By waking the sleeper, as Vicart pointed out, it removes loot we want from the game. The other side of the coin says it unlocks some other loot (not near as impressive, but some rinky-tink items like the dwarf illusion mask) so it would be done eventually.
    We intentionally left him sleeping for a couple of years on Rallos Zek to provide the lesser guilds with an opportunity to farm the warders as well. It was a serverwide decision made by the top guilds that only ended when someone didn't want to play nice with the rules. So we woke him at that point because the top 3 guilds were the ones who deserved to do so since they had kept the peace and rotated them fairly.
    That won't happen on progression. He will be woken up. Not because we're bored and have nothing better to do, but instead because it is a progression requirement.
  19. ARCHIVED-Bigz_Zupdarty Guest

    personaly i hope that they deside to farm ST on flippy......

    that way vulak can be done velious before them :D yay!
  20. ARCHIVED-spacetrig Guest

    sleeper will be awoken as soon as possible on Fippy, most likely on first time warders are killed

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