The reason fast exp/easy gameplay is killing each tlp

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Rothj, Feb 27, 2019.

  1. Locnar Journeyman

    Its not the fix. I said it was a move in the right direction.

    But Daybreak can't even stick with their own promised "hardcore" server that featured this simplest and smallest of moves in the right direction. What a shame.
  2. Rothj Augur

    I really don't think it's nostalgia. Eq was good because the content was and is good. Playing now on tlp or p99 you still get the same sort of experience. The issue for me is mostly that it's old content and I've done it too many times. This is why I'm going to play selos because a new server starting at luclin is exciting. To the other poster, I don't think new tlp expansions would work because you're assuming we would get the same quality as kunark. Realistically we would get the same garbage expansions live gets because the current devs can't make good content.
  3. RandomStrategy Augur

    Define hardcore. I assure you it's going to be different for every person. Your definition is absolutely not my definition.

    That's why it's impossible for them to create a 'hardcore' server.
  4. Locnar Journeyman

    Well by Daybreaks own published information about Mangler that they defined as "hardcore" , some of the characteristics are slower xp and harsher death penalty.

    Its a shame they got talked out of it by the merry-go-round crowd that wanted to consume their yearly dosage of expendable and temporary TLP nutrient devoid candy.
  5. Elemenopi Augur

    People are 20 years older now and do not have the time to spend on corpse runs, socking raid bosses, and earning back death penalty XP. Couple that with 3 month unlocks (versus the ~9-12 month expansion releases back in the early 90s - mid 2000s).
    Skwisgaar likes this.
  6. RandomStrategy Augur

    They also said Casuals shouldn't get to kill dragons.

    While I have full respect for the devs and DBG staff, they don't always get it right, either.

    Do you support removing AoCs from Mangler? Make it more hardcore? Because there were not AoCs in classic! Have fun poo-socking!

    How about removing True Box code? EQ classic never had it! I mean, P99 is not even classic due to requiring only 1 box per IP. Man, P99 is such a fail on reaching that classic-ness.

    Hey, let's remove all those quality of life things like click-from-bags, 40-slot bags, etc.
  7. Shiba Journeyman

    I feel so accomplished spending 40 hours to grind to 60 in zones I have already spent hours in... Please rain accomplishment on to me for my massive amounts of time spent grinding AA's in zones I dislike because they are the best zones. I definitely don't like playing in other zones because they are now viable to exp in.
  8. yerm Augur

    It's a move in the wrong direction. Tedium is NOT challenge! Losing xp when you die was a punishment to curtail suicidal play, while the corpse runs were the actual element that added difficulty. Nobody tells stories about grinding back lost xp, they talk about trying to get a body from the bottom of a dungeon or break back into fear.

    Likewise, an overly slow xp grind doesn't make people feel that much better about leveling, actually harder content would. At this point the level grind on pre-tss tlp is just not going to bring back that magic again. A better focus is on tailoring raid content to have challenge again, and making the level grind feel smooth and balanced betweem taking long enough to feel some investment without being a long slog.

    What mangler did is push a ton of tedium onto the players with minimal increase to challenge, since focuses don't really impact ability to win fights (tank mitigation, rains, monk fists, charm, etc. Only necro dots really mattered that it hurt). What would make for an actual hardcore server is stuff like corpse runs (yeah I know not happening) rather than xp penalties. Stuff like capped levels to force raiding underpowered rather than slow xp but still able to breeze through once max. Challenge, not tedium.
    Gorgol the Ogre likes this.
  9. Jontrann Augur

    <------------------p99 is that way.

    What a dumb thread.
  10. yerm Augur

    WoW is that way------------------>

    Thanks for contributing!
    Ishbu likes this.
  11. Daragoth Lorekeeper

    Honestly, this is one of the best ideas I have ever heard for a TLP server. I remember the excitement of a new expansion releasing and wondering, "what new items, spells or skills will my class get".

    There would be no more don't play class X because they suck after PoP or don't roll class Y till GoD, because nobody would know what changes are coming.
    Tymeless, Gorgol the Ogre and Risiko like this.
  12. Gorgol the Ogre Elder

    This ^ Mangler was first presented as the challenge server because of the slowest XP gains in a TLP server (ever!) but everyone recognized it as the XP potion server. That's not a challenge server, that's just a grind server. Thus the warranted outcry and welcome reversal on Daybreak's plans for the server.
    Tymeless and Ishbu like this.
  13. Locnar Journeyman

    It (slow xp) is a move in the right direction because:

    1) It helps shape and define your role on the server. When everyone has a max level tank, max level cleric for rez, max level necro for corpse summon, max level rogue to open your own doors in seb or HS, max level mage to summon pet toys (for your necro and your max level bstlord..), etc.etc. it cheapens the individuals class role on the server.

    2) it gives the player time and makes more worthwhile the many long quests at all level ranges. Why camp a drop in Qeynos aqueduct, and then go do turn ins by steamfont (and some other stuff in between im forgetting) for your lvl 10 Bonethunder staff when you can just use that time to get to level 30 with fast xp to a level beyond the usefulness of the staff or a great many other items and quest items.

    3) slower xp gives more time to build friendships (or enemies..) in the wider server community. When everyone rushes to max with ez xp and then quits till the next level increase, there is no ongoing community building over time.

    ez xp basically all but forces players down one quick xp grind and discourages any stopping to smell the roses. Same situation for tradeskills, and a bunch of other ingame systems that were never designed for fast xp. (like skills in general, which recently have been made trivial since skill gain was built around a MUCH slower xp grind... instead of making xp slower to fit in the original skill system, they are in effect speeding up EVERYTHING else , mudflation ontop of mudflation, cheapening everything from top to bottom).

    All kinds of magic happens when you SLOW everything down. From combat to post-recovery combat, to travel, to everything. The original developers knew this and that is part of what made the game so great.
  14. Owch Journeyman

    The only "magic" that will happen is making players disappear
    Barton, Gorgol the Ogre and code-zero like this.
  15. oldkracow 9999 Is the Krono Account Limit

    If that statement is even close to the truth then I guess Coirnav with the slowest experience rate won't lose any users to either new server. :rolleyes:

    This game was "great" because most of us were young, had time to play, and no other choices. Once other choices became available you quickly saw how those original developers went from market leaders to where everyone go.

    No doubt a lot of us enjoy the early EQ game, I know I do and my friends but that feeling of a fun game disappears quickly at certain points in the game.

    But to think slow exp grinds will keep people I'd suggest to get everyone to stick around on Coirnav long-term and show DBG just how much everyone loves a slow TLP.
    Tymeless likes this.
  16. xakanrn Augur

    The real reason TLP servers die off is simple they are nostalgia servers plain and simple
    People come and play then nostalgia dies off and come back for another round
    There already a TLP server for slow exp and all that
    Ragefire was a good one and was really popular but killed by the guilds blocking content
    Agnarr got it right tbh but meant for a crowd simply wanting it locked at a certain point
  17. xakanrn Augur

    True comment
    I sometimes wonder where people would find time to do this level 1-50 as it was in 1999
    Few might be able to do the bat phone thing and play 20 hours a day
    Most have grown up and cannot put in more then a couple of hours a day at best
    Tymeless likes this.
  18. Ceffener Augur

    At 10 years old I did not find grinding levels with slow XP to be challenging gameplay. But it’s good to know I was apparently an amazing level gamer at the time.

    Also DBG does continue to make new content. It’s on those servers that get new expansions ever year. TLPs are for people that want to progress through old content. If you want new content...go play it.
  19. Gremin Augur

    Just like no one can agree on what is classic or the proper amount of time between expansions, no one is going to agree on how to make EQ . You cant, that bottle has been opened and can not be closed again. If you dont like the rules of the new tlp dont play, if you want to only play a few hours a week do so. Stop thinking you have to keep up with the crowd, you dont. Enjoy the game how you enjoy playing. If you cant find a crowd that thinks the same way you do and not enjoying youself, quit. Find a new game....
  20. Candystore Augur

    The bleeding of players on TLP after the first few months, is simply a result of people living different lives and having different responsibilities now compared to the past.

    Many people think they want to spend time playing EQ at first, the nostalgia draws you in. But then drawn out epic quests arrive, raids arrive, and before you know it you're spending a lot of time in EQ, a lot.

    This then results in neglection of loved ones, pets, studies, jobs you needed to do, etc.

    Raiding or grinding for 4 hours might seem fun at first, but do this every other day and you're going to end up having to give up something else in real-life that you did before.

    So you end up having to make a choice. EQ or real-life. While some can combine both, many can't.

    And now you get to the real reason why TLP bleed interferes with people's daily lives too much to be sustainable for them. People start to complain about grind, timesinks, slow XP, etc. And I agree with them btw.

    This isn't just a problem for EQ. If you paid attention to the MMO space lately, you know there's almost no new games being released, certainly no big budget ones. People now have far more options to play casual online games, that don't interfere with their lives to the same extent. (not surprisingly, my prediction is that Pantheon will fail spectacularly)