The Elephant in the room

Won't someone think of the poor cheaters

If they're poor, they likely weren't very good cheaters.

I am curious just how many Krono vanish with each cheater.

I generally pay via krono (was very close to running out, then got a lucky couple drops). Krono does not deprive daybreak of money. Every one of those kronos cost someone $17.99.
Krono just means someone else payed for my account, in exchange for my plat.

I feel like daybreak should affiliate with a company that makes keyboards.
They'd make a mint.
The cheaters likely need a new keyboard weekly.

So many "cheaters gonna cheat" comments from the holier than thou crowd, finally got a good thread you could all pounce on eh?

In all likelyhood, every single player in every guild on every server has in some way benefitted from "banned" software use. You may not think so, but in some roundabout way, you have bought something in bazaar that was obtained illegally, or you have sold a krono for plat that came from someone who obtained it "illegally". Or perhaps your guild has survived because of its use. Or those cheap spell runes you bought in bazaar, you know, the guy that has 75 of them for sale cheap? Cheating! We are ALL in on it, whether you think you are or not, you are. It is so deeply ingrained into the game at this point that there is not a single player except a level one in tutorial that hasnt directly benefitted in some way from "cheating". Just let that soak in a moment then read on.

Coming from the server that got hit, if yours didn't, and you're sitting there saying how your server is unaffected then all I can say is just wait. Apparently pretty much all the guilds on bert lost quite a few folks due to the suspension. Quite a few players running multiple accounts quit the game entirely over the ban because, to them, the game wasn't fun without being able to run your own group (the warrior needs food badly lol). And as far as I know, bert was the only server hit, so far.

If you're have been or still are using or whatever it was they actually suspended people for, they have already got the dirt on you. They don't tell you what or when or where your "cheating" occurred. So more suspensions are likely on other servers that seem to think they are immune becuase they didnt get hit in the first wave. At this point we must assume bert was a test with more to come.

I think if they were smart they would make a server or two that is just for use of any 3rd party software you might wish to use. Then watch the mass migration happen and you're stock prices rise as people opened up their wallets again.

Or keep waiting and hoping for pantheon. Mercs pretty much ended the need to actually group with someone, and so folks turned to cheating. Sitting around all day lfg just isnt the rage anymore, and people have real lives now some 20+ years later. They want to log in and get stuff done not sit around lfg.

There is no easy solution. They seem hell bent on killing EQ lately. Or maybe they are going to release their own boxing software to get your money for that. Again that would be the smart financial move. Keep both your purists and your cheaters and everyone in between happy and on your subscribtion list. Make a couple free for all servers, because if people want to pay for it then shouldnt they get to be a satisfied customer?

Hire those folks that are making the popular software you hate, and box it up and sell it to those who want to use it. There is obviously a big demand, why not capitalize on it?

just my 2cp, I really dont have a dog in this fight. Don't play much anymore and when I do its usually one toon to raid on.

Because I've gamed with these people for years and actually know them.

You have an agenda and want to paint everyone with the same brush and life just isn't that black and white.

The people who got hit and actually left are the ones who box for fun.

The 'dirty cheaters' who are in it for the $$$ went right back to work. The PL for cash guy is back, the baz traders are back. The F2P 110 SK's AFKing in HoTT zones were not even hit ....

We have no influence on how other people are playing, and we can't know how other people get their wealth. We would actually be fine with it, if there was less wealth on the server as the dropsizes are tuned towards people not botting(inflation is horrible on some servers because of it).

Even if we did benefit from it in "some roundabout way", it does not mean we want it or support it, and it certainly doesn't mean we are "in" on it. There are lots of undeserved privileges we benefit from in our daily lives, that we don't have any influence on. That doesn't make us "guilty" in any way.

Every time I see one of these threads I think about how they really need to be realistic about the boxing prevalence among modern players and implement some changes to the game that make boxing without 3rd party applications more reasonable. They have in the past implemented some features from these cheat programs whether they do so knowingly or unknowingly, I think these are some good changes to the base game that would make boxing characters especially at level 115 much more doable without any programs assisting you.

Add a /weave command that functions like melody but for spells.

Increase the number of lines in hotkeys. It’s been 5 lines since 1999. Increase the maximum up to even 10 would be a huge improvement. On burns some classes are trying to activate more than 5 different discs/spells/AAs/Item Clickies. Allow hotkeys to handle activating all of those.

Add a hotkey command that can call another hotkey, similar to how they added a hotkey command to utilize a clicky. This way you could call a different hotkey. /dohotkey HotkeyName for example.

Add a hotkey to stop any hotkey mid-process. For example /stophotkey

Add a function that allows you to autofollow an NPC using the same system that allows you to autofollow a PC. I know you can autofollow the tank and have the tank position themselves between the mob and their boxes but often this has issues due to varying NPC size, Runspeed and in tight areas they don’t turn well enough to face a mob. At the very least a command that allows you to move into melee range initially but maybe not follow around an NPC.

All of these are still inferior to cheat programs of course but they would close the gap between those boxing with cheats and those boxing without. For many who think the game is unplayeable without their cheats they may find it more tolerable with some/all of these changes I’ve suggested. Playing a single character would still be superior to boxed characters as anyone will tell you a solo player on a raid or in a group is always going to be better than one relying upon hotkeys that have built in pauses that can bug up in higher lag situations and aren’t as flexible as multi different multibinds or manual casting etc.

I also think the account infrastructure should also be changed to be more friendly to boxers. Allow people to flag one of their accounts a main or master account. Let people tie multiple in-game accounts to this master account. Require Credit card information be tied to each account and require all the security questions be set. Let people permanently link these in-game accounts together. Some bonuses would be allow people to trade/transfer daybreak cash between these accounts and let people account to account transfer between these accounts. Even without these bonuses it would be nice being able to manage the subscription or expansion purchases among all your accounts through 1 master account. Also allow any account management like password changes etc. through a single account and interface.

Those that hunt for something out of a pack always go for the slowest as they are easier to catch.

In many states, they do like they describe in your analogy. In mine they put a state trooper in front of the pack, one in behind, put their lights on at the same time, and announce over the loudspeaker for everyone to pull over. Seen this happen on several occasions.

What this does is informs the public that the traffic laws must be obeyed, even if the 'pack' isn't. You still won't escape a punitive action.

So keeping with the analogy, the mass bans should probably happen a bit more frequently and be announced right after they take effect. Maybe even list the number. Many MMORPGs do this already.

Let's see if this can't be put into perspective.

Over the years I have grouped with people who have used third party programs, in EQ and in other games. I've even used some of them myself (no in EQ, but in WoW where it was allowed at the time). Does the usage of these programs in EQ make these people bad and scum? No. Obviously not.

Are they breaking the rules? Well yeah. They likely wouldn't be banned otherwise. That's not really in debate here. A rule was broken and punishment was handed out. But here's the thing. Many of us have played sports right? Basketball, Football, Soccer, and so forth.

We seen some of the best players, friends, family, classmates, co-workers, etc when playing some of these commit fouls and penalties. They're not horrible people by any measure. But a free throw still happens, a penalty kick still happens, a replay of down and lost of yardage still happens. In some cases where things go wonky, you have someone tossed out of the game.

That's what happened here. Should they have been banned? Well yes. They broke the rules we all agreed to. I've used these programs in the past but never in EQ because its not allowed here. Everyone else had the same choice as I did. I'd love to use Voice Attack (uses voice commands for keyboard inputs) but the rules don't allow for it so I don't. I don't make excuses. I don't make claims of servers are dead, can't find a group, or any of that mess. I just play it legit. Its not exactly a hard game to play by the rules people. It really isn't.

They still suck at playing EQ. Cheats are only needed to beat other cheaters.

Why is it surprising? They did a broad ban wave based off software detection.

Who is it that you think is surprised?

If cheating software was detected & people were banned as a result then my disbelief is completely justified as a counter to someone claiming the suspended / banned folks were not cheaters.

Are you attempting to suggest the ban wave was completely as a result of a large number of false-positive detections?

Considering the extreme fallibility (the tendency to make mistakes or be wrong) of the game itself and the game's other automated programs then why is anyone trusting an automated account suspension program?

And only on Bertox? opps.

I cannot see any GM or other employee doing this manually - there were just too many suspended. Unless it was a new employee who went power mad and worked overtime.

They probably do look over the history of suspensions when one has enough and then do the bans manually.

Read that post you memed, again.

Windace didn’t claim they weren’t cheating. Windace only said the people they talked to weren’t using software to AFK play. Still, breaking the rules but I don’t get why you wouldn’t believe that some people used the software but didn’t run it over night.

According to whom? The 5 posters that came to these forums to make claims of something? Every time there has been a wave ban these forums were flooded with posts and posters and 30 page threads on it. This time, there was 2 threads and only a few people and all being vague.

The reality is it was probably a handful of cheating boxers that were petitioned and caught and banned and from their narcissistic perspective decided it must be "half the server".

My brothers room mates cousin's sister's uncle blah blah blah.

Zero credibility.

I'm beginning to think this is the case. In fact this thread is the only source of information on the subject currently.

So a dozen people got banned, and a few claim its the end of EQ. Yep.. another peak EQ-Player moment right there.