The Elephant in the room

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by demi, Jul 30, 2021.

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  1. Raccoo Augur

    No, it's not opinion. It isn't allowed.

    See?? Not opinion. Cheating is cheating. Whether they didn't punish for it for a while is another issue.

    Let the door hit you all.
  2. demi Augur

    all you non cheaters out there who use good's or brewall's maps or who use Gina for triggers or Gameparse software are in a sense cheating the game ..

    all you guys throwing stones .. well lets just say the only reason your throwing stones is cause its the internet and we dont know who you really are .. you telling me you've never broke the speed limit to make an appt? or ran a yellow/red light or a stop sign ? thats cheating .. and no one can say they've never done it ..

    3rd party software includes maps , gina and gameparse whether you want to admit it or not .. you are using a outside program to make your gaming experience simplier and easier ..

    people who use 3rd party software to enhance their game play and not abuse it , should be allowed .. otherwise suspend the use of All SOFTWARE ..

    the few dozen peeps who are calling for our heads is just that a few dozen peeps who patrol these boards .

    I dont know how many peeps got suspended/banned but I do know it impacted the game whether you Non Cheaters like to think so or not .. only time will tell ..

    Ive never hidden the fact that I use a 3rd party software I openly talk about it .. If the dev's want to suspend me then let them ive been using said software ( i s bx r ) for 18 or so years and never have I ever been suspended or banned ..

    However I'm at the point that if they want to suspend me DO IT .. they will be doing me a favor and I'll be saving a truck load of money every year..

    Now I do not mind them suspending / banning the peeps that abuse the software ..

    but being at the keyboard and broadcasting keystrokes to other toons to make gaming easier for disabled peeps or peeps with arthritis im sure is not the boxing peeps that got suspended/banned.

    I'm sure this post will get flamed by the flamers .. Flame on .. this is my last post ..
    " those who live in glass houses should not throw stones"
    "let him who is without sin cast the first stone"
  3. Act of Valor The Newest Member

    Nope. Nope. Nope. We aren't "in a sense" cheating the game. The developers do not, in any way, want to stop people from using Gina, Gamparse, or maps (an in game feature, wtf?)

    Those programs are not the same league as macaroni quest or that boxing program.
    minimind, Duder and Velisaris_MS like this.
  4. Geko Lorekeeper

    1. how has this suspension impacted your gameplay , if at all ? Not at all, didn't even know a suspension happened.
    2. is this the end of EQ EQ is dying because the player base is dying. Let's be forreal. The games days are numbered as most players are 50+
    3. do you think DB made the right choice or wrong , explain your reasons ? They should be banning anyone who is using 3rd party software to play the game. AFK or not - use of automation software should be a hard ban. Maybe even a hardware ban.
    minimind and Elyssanda like this.
  5. Raccoo Augur

    1. Maps have been a part of the game and officially allowed since their introduction in LDON expansion.

    2. The devs have given the ok to use GINA, gamparse (and parsers that work like it), and I S boxer.

    Everyone has done something they shouldn't at some point in their life, so we should be ok with people who are constantly doing something they shouldn't?

    If you're only using I S boxer, gamparse, maps, and GINA, then you're not a cheater. /shrug
    Celephane and Duder like this.
  6. Thash Itinerant Speculator

    Pretty sure keypress broadcasting to otherwise manually played boxes isn't the issue here..
    Angahran and Stymie like this.
  7. Bigstomp Augur

    They added mapping tools into the game that output to text files that can be shared.
    They output text to a log file and even went so far an expansion or two ago as to normalize messages so it can be read more easily.
    minimind likes this.
  8. Nennius Curmudgeon

    In the end, the opinion of an admitted cheater is of little value. And even more importantly, the ONLY opinions in this case that REALLY matter are those of the folks at DPG who are paid to enforce the rules. All the rest is commentary.

    I should add that the only credible comment that "demi" made was that which referred to folks with disabilities. All the rest is rubbish.
    minimind and Duder like this.
  9. Khat_Nip Meow

    The first four words of your post proclaimed us as not being cheaters but then sequed into us cheating by using something that the game, by design, allows us to do which is to create or use our own maps.

    This is a strawman and has nothing to do with anything.

    You're making a claim without it being backed up by anything.

    Non-cheaters don't like cheating and if some of them come to these boards and tell that to you and you have issue with it then that's a you problem.

    Funny wording. You just admitted that you and they are cheating.

    If you've been using an unmodified i s bx r then what's your issue? Are you just trying to white knight those that might finagle it a little bit or use code that's not exactly stock i x bx r?

    Oh, here's were we get the threat of cancelling accounts to 'stick it to the man'.

    Finally we get to the point of involving the ADA.

    Your whole ramble was sad, honestly.
    Coagagin and Elyssanda like this.
  10. Bigstomp Augur

    Cheaters were banned, cheaters cancelled (or at least threatened to cancel) their accounts.

    Nobody of value was lost.
  11. Cicelee Augur

    DJ KHALED!!!!

    ALL I DO IS WIN!!!

    I am more partial to the remix, but original was good too
    Elyssanda likes this.
  12. Tappin Augur

    Can someone please tell me where the Devs said that Gina does not violate the EULA? I can’t find it (I have been told it exist) Gina offers a significant advantage over what is provided in game. Yes, Gina is cheating. Can you use that to compare to boxing programs? Absolutely not. Given the numbers we saw from the sale of EQ, would live survive a mass ban? Absolutely not. TLP? Maybe. Stop trying to sugar coat the state of the game. They shouldn’t have ever allowed the use boxing software on live those moons ago.
  13. Tatanka Augur

    Those are not in the same category. One lets you automate (cheat), the other does not.

    One also let's you use plugins which let you do things like warp, know exactly where mobs on track are at, etc. The other does not.

    See where I'm going with this?
    Coagagin likes this.
  14. Tappin Augur

    Correction- both are cheating, but one allows some form automation.
  15. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    If you cheat you may get banned, eventually.

    If you cheat you understand that you might get away with it once or more often, but if you keep doing it you may eventually get caught, though as we have seen with EQ that may take years.

    If anything this ban wave took far too long to happen, by not happening sooner some folks got it into their heads that cheating was okay, even tolerated, they were wrong.

    Disabled gamers should not be using software to automate characters either, there are many challenges for a disabled gamer but there is also specialised help available to create individually-tailored peripherals that allow them to play and even to compete with able-bodied players, that works better for games with simple control schemes, after all MMORPG's are usually a lot more complex to control than a FPS but such things can be done.
    Personally I think EQ should have it's UI and combat scheme radically streamlined as the "button bloat" is ridiculous at this point even for able-bodied gamers anyway and this bloat makes EQ much more inaccessible to disabled gamers than it really even needs to be anyway.
    Stymie, Raccoo and Wyre Wintermute like this.
  16. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    They have specifically stated that anything that read log files and output the information and did not inject anything into the client were perfectly ok, and have flat out stated that GINA and Gamparse are fine. Go look up one of the other hundred threads whining about the same garbage and find the link yourself.

    Seriously, stop being a tool.
    Angahran, Scornfire, Smokezz and 6 others like this.
  17. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    My guild has started having a bench again after the earlier summer lull when we were pushing down to 50 people in raids. Not seen anyone banned in my guild afaik.

    All I have seen are 2-3 people posting about "half the game was banned!", when everyone here knows if more than a dozen people were banned this place would have blown up with threads on it.

    If there was a ban, it was probably people automated boxing armies for profit who just turned around and made new accounts to do the same thing, and a few sad sacks that had decided to do the same thing on their home PC to box 1-2 groups and feel all good about themselves, that now rue that decision as their personal accounts they cared about were hit.

    Buh bye.
  18. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    About maps: (and Im not talking about that dodgy "harrypotter map"-app that shows monsters and loot in realtime, which is very much cheating)

    Ever since the first fansites(like eqatlas.com and everlore) started appearing on the internet, SOE have encouraged sharing of maps. Back then they were just hand-drawn and scanned. It was a part of the everquest community.
    I am very sure the devs does not consider 3rdparty maps cheating. Just like having a browser in the background displaying a walkthrough from allahkazam.com isn't cheating.

    You can of course ague that it is "spoiling" the dungeon/quest in the classical sense. Some people take pleasure in solving the quests themselves after all, and I know players who draw their own maps. I can respect that! :)


    And I had no idea there was a mass suspension either, it hasn't affected my server.
    I am also in favor of enforcing the rules! :cool:
    Shanarias likes this.
  19. CatsPaws Devil's Advocate

    Just want to point out it does not matter what a Dev has said. Or if they have even sent you personal conformation that what you are using is ok. I know of players who had such conformation but have still gotten suspensions and/or bans. They can change the rules when they want - and they have done/will and did.


    This from yet another post about this topic:

    "A program like GINA, where it just looks at the log files and places text on your screen when certain phrases show up, is the exact same thing as the in-game audio triggers, only instead of audio, it is text. Not only is that allowed, but the last thing Daybreak would want is publicity that they were "discriminating" against disabled (deaf) people."

    OR another way to say it:

    GINA is perfectly legal because all it does is read the log files (legit) and show stuff on your screen separately from the EQ game (also legit). But the moment you hack your GINA to start pressing buttons for you in-game (or doing anything like that) you're cheating.

    And from Fanra site for those who want dev responses

    Are third party programs allowed by Daybreak? The answer is yes, as long as they don't cheat. Here are some quotes from Daybreak explaining:
    I'm not gonna create a list of approved programs, however I will say that common sense is more than enough to tell if you are cheating.
    Parsing - Not cheating
    Item Collectors - Not cheating
    Program that has autofire button (and you are still in the general vicinity of the keyboard) - Not cheating
    Swimming on auto-run into a corner to raise up swimming - Not cheating
    Cheating - not allowed.
    If it's reasonable and not unfair it's not cheating. If it gives you an unfair advantage and allows you to do things that can't be normally done in game it's cheating.
    It [I.S. Boxer] is not in and of itself against our rules. It can be used, especially in conjunction with other programs, to violate rules. And for Everchanter's benefit I will include an obligatory "shhhhhhh!"
    We don't tend to endorse specific software (who knows what might be added in the next release). Window management software and key replication (although not automation) are both allowed however.




  20. Velisaris_MS Augur

    I'm all in favor of a prison server instead of banning cheaters. Transfer every character they have on every server to the prison server and let them play/cheat there.

    The prison server:
    - does not show up on the list of servers
    - gets updated/patched like regular servers, but has no customer service/GMs
    - no cross-server tells to or from the prison server
    - PVP enabled
    - no common language (like FV)
    - every item (except vendor sold stuff) is NO TRADE, including Kronos


    Send them all there and let them cheat to their heart's content.
    Ibudin and Shanarias like this.
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