Well the reasoning behind raid getting an upgrade and group versions not in a good day or 2 you can get a full set of group gear as opposed to it taking raiders months to upgrade things with most raids having a 4 to 5 day lockout and dropping 2 patterns per if you camp a named that drops patterns its logical to say you could get 6 to 8 patterns per day you may be able to upgrade some raid foci pieces within a month.
I raid three nights a week so I know the pain of having to wait for upgrades very well Since the original post just referred to "top tier items" and since both group and raid items have multiple tiers, I wanted to know if the top-tier group items on my non-raid characters would be upgraded to 103 or not.
I'm incredibly dense, but for the sake of my own simplicity, isn't it a better comparison rather than Caster focus X vs. melee focus Y.. Caster Focus X vs. Melee Weapon Y? Focus is where casters get the bang for their buck, weapons is where melee gets the bang for their buck. COTF raid weapons > TDS group weapons, no? TDS spells, with COTF raid focus > TDS spells with TDS group focus, no? Is anyone really going to dispute who gets a bigger instantaneous boost between melee and casters from day one of a new expansion? To stem that, they're adding the spell focus AA lines. Overly ambitious people will skip through that quickly, but still take a slight hit in focus decay that will still make true the above statements presumably. Melee can't quickly skip over the fact that they can't upgrade to a top-tier-of-new-expansion weapon with more than a little of their own effort, may be forced to play a month or two for an upgrade to weapon, much as casters will have to play a month or two for an upgrade to focus..
Focus decay for casters is pretty much a non-issue and has been since it was first implemented. Given the speed at which armor pieces and spells enter the game raiders/groupers who go about a steady play style will rectify the situation quickly enough. Those that refuse to spend DKP/whatever on upgrades because there is another upgrade in the future is a detriment to the guild and should be benched for someone willing to actually better their character to help their guilds now. Just my opinion.
Not all foci are equal. DoT and Heal foci add a lot more, (and therefore lose a lot more with decay), than DD foci. Spell haste Foci is worth a lot more to DD/Heal casters than DoT casters. etc. You have to evaluate the value of what Spells and Foci actually do together or else you won't be accurate at all. New spells + Old Foci are often WORSE than Old Spells and Old Foci. People that don't actually play casters often do not understand this point. Why would you compare Raid focus to group focus? No raider is going to swap their COTF raid items for TDS group items. People who actually understand the game know it is Melee is almost all cases, so no. Those that don't understand the game will argue. Melee gain damage purely by leveling, Casters do not. So yes, they do in fact get upgrades with "a little of their own effort." They've been throwing weapons at us the last expansion. I don't think I've seen a single raid in CotF where at least 1 weapon -didn't- drop. Getting a single weapon, which is all most melee need, and which is likely class restricted to only a few classes, vs needing FOUR, at minimum, (as a Wizard I need 5: Fire/Ice/Magic/Haste/Mana) pieces for Focus effects, most of which are NOT class restricted. I wonder who will get theirs first?
Monks and rogues need two weapons while Zerkers need one. Rangers and Beast need two weapons plus every armor piece you just mentioned (with Beast subbing Fire for Disease). Bards probably have it the easiest of all. They just need a magical flute and a chain mail thong to be effective. A flute to call the rats and a chain mail thong to distract the enemy. Who has it the worst I wonder? I am going to say the poor old clerics and warriors. Both always get blamed first when things go south!
This focus decay stuff is just so old news. Leave the dead horse alone. Everyone will need to get upgrades since gear will reset. All I really see here is casters crying because they won't be light years ahead of melees on day one. I have heard a dev comment saying new spells with old foci will be better than old spells with old foci so until I am proven wrong on this after patch day I will assume the dev knows more than some raiding guild person from roi.
Actually, any comparison between melee foci and caster foci is a bit off, basically because it is only part of the story. Melee and casters are living in two vastly different worlds. To give you an example of what I am talking about: Every time the subject comes up, raiding casters will talk about farming the next expansion's Tier 1 group gear for the non-degraded foci found there. There is also talk that if melee foci degraded like caster foci, then the raiding melees would whine about having to farm the next expansion's Tier 1 group gear for the non-degraded foci. Here is where the whole concept falls apart: Melee classes DO have spells. These spells (called disciplines) are largely unfocused. In general the only melee spells that are focused are the ones that are focused by the breastplate. There is an attempt to equate spells to weapons. Whether this is a valid comparison or not, there are only two melee foci that directly affect weapons damage, cleave (found on arms) and ferocity (found on legs). There is a small difference between the raid cleave focus and the group cleave focus. There is a large difference between raid fire focus and group fire focus. There is a large difference between raid weapons and group weapons. There is a small difference between raid fire based spells and group fire based spells. Basically the big difference between a raiding caster and a group caster is the foci and the big difference between a raiding melee and a group melee is the weapons. There is no melee in his/her right mind that would drop from CotF Tier 2 raid gear, to TDS Tier 1 group gear even if focus degradation was introduced. Would the melee classes whine and stamp their feet about it if melee focus degradation was introduced. Of course they would, but the raiders would not start farming Tier 1 group arms and legs because of it. Because gear to a melee isn't about the focus effects, it is about survival. The focus effects are just gilding.
I dont know the the next expansions T1 focus effects but generally they are 5-10% upgrades every other level up expansion. my guess group gear damage focus will be 50-80? if thats the case or somewhere near that. would that not make T1 group gear butter than T1 COTF raid gear? Damage focus wise. Spell Range, Duration, Manapress, Haste seem to be all better short of level 105. Question for you guys and casters. Will T1 CoTF raid gear be better than TDS T1 Group gear? Should i get the raid gear now or wait to get the group gear?
If you have access to RoF or CotF raid gear I would get it. For as much complaining as casters are doing in this tread it really isn't the big deal they are making it out to be. One top end raid in another thread mentioned that you are basically losing a 2-3 cast on a burn because of spell haste and obviously a much more on sustains as that stacks up.. Probably not make or break in any but the most dire situations.
They don't even need the flute now. Instruments have zero benefit to bards anymore. Hell to a bard with AAs going from group to raid gear does nothing (for their songs obviously not talking about stats). Which is incredibly depressing by the way and needs changed! (hint hint devs.) Bards can't be considered bards without an instrument imo. That's like saying a warrior is a warrior in cloth armor, or a mage is a mage with no pet, or a ranger is a ranger without a bow, or a necro is a necro without crying about things constantly dots.
