The clinging to life as a berserker - desperate measures thread

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Mortium, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. Cleaver Augur

  2. Mortium Elder

    Come to Triton, we have so many monks they fulminate all the time. I'm jealous of them :D

    So let me come out and say that I feel I'm actually a decent zerker. Rarely out of the top 10, in fact come to think of it I haven't been out of the top 10 since the mezbreak affair and this one time where I died 7 times in about 3 minutes (that damn AE hammer gets me into so much trouble :p)

    I just haven't seen any zerkers on our server for the longest time. I guess you other servers have it a lot better than us!
  3. Dropfast Augur

    Mort's just Jelly!!

    But yea I think we all need to make some constructive class issues threads. Melee are suffering from quite few issues. Every class has their issues of course but melee's are getting progressively worse. I plan on making one for the monks soon if I can get some time off work.

    The biggest issue atm in my opinion is timers. All the pure melee could use like 6-10 more timers and a few abilities moved around. Their is nothing worse than having some nice ability you can never use because it shares a timer with something better.

    So many discs that just got to rot every year. Melee already get half the spells / discs that casters do but then half of that goes to waste because of timers. So really monks only get like 2-3 real spell upgrades every year. Still using discs from level 63....from nearly the start of the game. I'm guessing Zerk, Rouge, and War are the same. Come on now.

    But the Devs are doing good on this kinda of stuff lately, let's stay positive and come up with good ideas! Maybe one day they will listen and fix stuff >< Zerks probably could use a tad more defensive abilities. Not a lot but a small bump. To much reliance on AE for DPS I'd think anyone would agree with. AE's cause all kinds of huge issues in both raids and groups.
    DaciksBB and Mortium like this.
  4. Mortium Elder

    I already said I'm jealous :) I admit it!
  5. segap Augur

    Rogues still are and I don't have a problem with it. They're still worth using and scale. They've been tweaked over time with AA that extend duration and reduce the cooldown. There's really no point in getting a new disc that does the same thing, has a different name and is a slight upgrade. Having something that scales so I don't have to replace the button every twelve months is perfectly fine with me. Plenty of other stuff to work on instead.

    I do agree with the timer thing. Giving us new stuff that shares a timer with old stuff, but which isn't as good means wasted dev effort. Especially when they create things with twice the cool down timer and half the dps gain and shove it on the same timer as our best disc. But, hey, they can check off the spell count for the marketing material.
    DaciksBB likes this.
  6. Bigstomp Augur

    So what you're saying is, if we work atsa team in an MMO, tanks (unless slacking) do enough aggro, you do enough dps, and everything is working well. Sounds sorta like as designed.
  7. DaciksBB Augur

    I'll have to come up with a few things, probably disc upgrades, delinking some disc timers (like EotS and Shaded Step/Reflexes), removing the melee damage penalty from Celestial Fist to not overwrite Zan Fi, and reducing Ton Po cost

    Thank you for the offer but I love my guild, very few monks pass app though. Guess I'm just a bad teacher!
  8. Thrillho Augur

    I see your point and mostly agree, but, I think we do need some upgrades to most of the older disciplines simply to make it easier for new people to play these classes. I've seen plenty of newer monks who don't have rank 3 of some of the bread-and-butter abilities we have. Drunken monkey (UF), Ironfist (HoT), Crane Stance (VoA) all come to mind.

    One could argue (and I agree) that old discs run fine as is, considering we have AA that bump them up to current. Adding a new version wouldn't need much of an upgrade at all - 1 to 3% for each rank wouldn't break any disc, but it would allow newer characters to put in less time towards maxing out the class.

    There is something to be said for putting time in and being rewarded for it. To grind away for so long to get your full set of spells only for it to be handed out to someone else in a later expansion is a bit of a slap in the face, but it happens with gear all the time. There's also something to be said for these raids being fairly easy to do, but then again so are the artisan's prize / shawl / epics.

    From the OP, berserkers are few and far between. Monks & rogues could be in the same position. I know there are pockets of them here and there, but it's not all that common of a class compared to wizards, magicians, clerics, druids, shamans, warriors, paladins, shadowknights. Maybe making it easier to get up to par would help the situation?

    (I have max rank for all of the old disciplines still in use, this isn't a plea to make my life easier).
  9. Tiggold Augur

    We Need:
    -Our Riposte disc to be useful and situational again, without a conflicting timer, on par with Weaponshield
    -Innate damage bonus for higher delay weapons
    -Chance to cause Bleeding effects, multiples, that stack-not just the one "dot": more like Rogues
    -Blinding Fury needs reduced CD
    -Avenging needs retuned or scaled upwards
    -Brutal needs retuned or scaled upwards
    -Cleaving needs retuned or scaled upwards
    -Reduced CD on Furious/Focused Rampage and Rampage

    Not just for Berserkers but for all melee I think Crippling Blows need to be looked at. We are already at a constant crit rate for most BER I run into so what exactly is CAcrimony supposed to be?
  10. menown Augur

    Asking as a necro, no more DoTs please.
    Sancus and Tiggold like this.
  11. Tiggold Augur

    That stack, so as in one icon, adding charges to it for bleeding. Give me one slot Menown!
  12. Tolzol Augur

    Our riposte disc is still useful and situational? Being on a different timer would be cool and maybe an aa to extend it some would be cool but it’s still very useful.
    We have this from aa’s already
    Don’t see the need for this we are melee not casters and see this causing even more issues with debuff slots.
    I guess? I only use this with main burn and everything in main burn besides furious/focused is pretty much same timer.
    I would be more interested in them looking into mangling discipline, in its current form I’ve only found it useful to hit twice a raid night otherwise you lose too much sustained dps. Once on ST1 since losing some sustained on ST2 as a melee doesn’t matter much and on last event of the night. Timer on it needs to be dropped or they should look into making it a true upgrade to disconcerting. Or if they want to leave it alone put it on its own timer. But with that being said upgraded lines of these would definitely be welcomed also.
    This i could get behind. Would be nice to have it on same timer as rest of main burn
    Maedhros likes this.
  13. Tiggold Augur

    Do you remember the last time you used Ripo disc? - I don't. but before that I was using it all the time.

    I know we already have innate for delay but I think it needs to be higher. I would like to see BER prefer to go larger delay and stay away from using the same stuff SK's want to use for toys.

    Bleeds just need to happen.

    I only use BF for my main burn too but that's a lot of dps and I would like to use it more often personally. I actually want to complain about being blinded again.

    I don't see the importance over fixing one disc that they have already messed up the timer on instead of fixing 3 main stays that haven't received updates, like ever. I would like to use Mangle myself, I actually don't even use it twice a night so that would be nice to actually use it without messing up my sustained.

    I also want to include we do not need any other race choices for this class and infact are willing to give you back Vah Shir, thanks.
  14. Behelit Augur

    Cleaving Acrimony turns your critical hits into crippling blows, which iirc is something like a 1.4 dmg mod to the critical hit. Cleaving wouldnt be so bad if its recast wasnt so long, although thats not to say it couldnt use a new effect added to it if it was upgraded either.

    Every time you burn lesson you should be using Reckless over Cleaving. Pretty much any group-game situation Reckless > Cleaving. Only on raids does Reckless get sidelined for Cleaving.
    Sancus, Tiggold and Tolzol like this.
  15. Tolzol Augur

    Nothing has changed with our riposte disc though so i don’t get what you mean by “before that i used it all the time” i haven’t used it much since they changed xp rates in rof and lower zones once you hit over lvl 100 however long ago that was since swarming wasn’t really viable aa xp after that. But in an oh moment i still use it in groups.
    People are going to go for whatever is the best ratio for weapons. And I’m sorry but i don’t see why bleeds need to happen. If i want to do DOT damage i would play a necro. And the reason i say I’d rather them fix mangling is that is the more likely thing to happen over them upgrading all of our burn discs. I’m pretty sure my reply said it would be welcomed if they chose to go that route though but I’m doubtful they would upgrade all three of those at once.
    Tiggold likes this.
  16. Behelit Augur

    I mean....

    I dont wanna pull a Drogbaa here or anything but.....

    You know what nevermind, nothing to see here.
    Drogba, Sancus and Tolzol like this.
  17. Tolzol Augur

    Lol good idea
  18. p2aa Augur

    It's not because your guild has only 1 zerker that the zerker class has disappeared of raids.
    In fact, most guilds have more raiding zerkers than monks. It's more common to find 1-2 monks and 4 + zerkers than the other way. Yours is an exception. The sky is very far from falling like you wrote it.
    Maedhros and Mortium like this.
  19. drizerker Lorekeeper

    Can't really add much here that hasn't been said. We are in a pretty good spot. One or two mis-clicks drops you from top 3 to top 15 but same could be said for other melee classes and casters. Its very competitive right now which is awesome. As far as raids go, we can take a few hits for sure if your good at using your defensive abilities. I am not saying we are a knight but we are not the speed bump we were either. Just think about your gear choices. (I would love to see a new war-cry someday though)
    Tiggold and Maedhros like this.
  20. Behelit Augur

    Ok lets dispell the idea that everything is great in the land of the Zerkers already...

    The following is that infuriates me on a daily basis of playing this game:

    Frenzy continues to need major help, either a new disc for it in line with Heel of/Frenzied Stabbing or a complete overhaul of how Frenzy damage is calculated as the current system of relying on Blur of Axes and Uncontained Frenzy procs is pretty awful design with predictably awful results.

    Then we have the slew of new spells that either needed timer changes or design changes:
    1. Mangling Disc: Everything is wrong with this pretty much, the duration, the recast, the values on the SPA's. And really how or why it was decided that Disconcerting Disc needed an upgrade when we literally just got it introduced the year before in EoK is one of the dumbest design choices I've seen regarding melee spells in my time playing this game.

    2. Axe of Rekatok: Instead of the traditional 33/34/33 split on the effects we could've dropped the jolt and debuff and had this be a guaranteed stun up to 113. Now that is a departure from the previous iterations in the line but thats because Aristo introduced Axe of Aeons on the same timer that does superior damage with no side-effects, Axe of Rekatok in its current form goes completely unused. At least as an over-cap stun it'd have situational use.

    3. Torrid Frenzy: Needs a timer change, its gone unused since the introduction of Augmented Frenzy in RoF part2. And yet we've had 2 upgrades since then that we've suggested be used for other spells or given a new timer.

    3. Sucker Punch: For starters its a kick attack, which why a Zerker is using the kick skill is beyond me. But ignoring the mismatching name/skills used even, this should be changed to a Frenzy skill attack and have its out of combat restriction removed. Especially when every raid puts you in agro before you actually do anything.

    4. Vicious Cyclone: Needs a timer change or shouldve been discontinued in favor of something new or an old disc revamp.

    5. Ritual Scarification: The biggest pile of garbage in the history of garbage, scrapped together by garbage people their whole garbage lives, so that one day they could share it with their garbage kids. But seriously the avoidance and riposte is unparsable, so you just cap your HP at 89% and dot yourself... oh and you can't click it off for some god awful reason so once you take that leap into the unknown you get to enjoy the full experience.

    AND THATS JUST ROS SPELLS............ If I really wanted to be nit-picky I could complain about Cry Carnage's accuracy mod being useless (even tho I use it to make people happy cause it raises a number in their stats window), or complain about no upgrade to Conditioned Retaliation which REALLY shouldve gotten an upgrade at 110 since thats the old stun limit from lvl 97....

    Moving on to the new AA's.

    Juggernaut's Surge: Duration needs to be increased, this has been brought up numerous times. At the moment its our shortest activated AA mod despite being also one of the weakest. The only good thing it has going for it is an ok recast time.

    Screaming Axes III: needs its proc rate dramatically increased also Screaming Fury II: needs its HHE(SPA182) increased to 30% (Base1=-300).

    Decap: the scaling of Decap dmg since it came out has been terrible. Its first rank is available at lvl 91 for 153k damage, so essentially will one shot most mobs at that level. Now at lvl 110 its up to a whooping 200k... as you can obviously imagine decap has almost no impact when killing dark-blues at 110.

    And aside from the Frenzy paragraph thats all just RoS related complaints. If you wanna broaden the horizons I'll find more rainy clouds. Does that mean we're bad off balance wise? No but just cause we aren't boned doesnt mean we should just forget about all these problems till next beta when its vastly too late.
    Tiggold and Mortium like this.