That program is now allowing Phinigel?! DBG?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Risiko, Jul 14, 2016.

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  1. Porterz73 Augur

    Many didn't worry about boxing (normally 2 or 3 accounts played by a person). But a I can assure you a very large number of people hated the Mage armies which where run by 3rd party bot programs.

    There are always people who seek to cheat or exploit so it's not surprising that there will be work arounds. What the current owners of EQ should do is make it clear that if a player is caught they will be banned or suspended or put on a watch list.

    So far Phini has been great for me as I have not seen bot armies dominating zones like on Ragefire and Lockjaw. Let's hope they can keep the cheaters to a minimum on the true box servers.
  2. Ethereal Augur


    I was pointing out that if you go to a live server, tons of people use 3rd party programs, in response to someone thinking the only people who PAY to play this game are people on TLP servers.

    Also, for the record, 'that program' is completely free. Anyone has access to it. You don't have to go to a 3rd party site to get it. It's not like this is new, it's been around since like 2002. Been free the whole time. Which bottom line is it hurting again? That person who charges nothing for something anyways? Derp.

    Btw, I'm not saying it's okay to use it, I'm just pointing out that the reason people are crying is amusing to me. I don't even play on phini. (again, not the only TLP, stop acting like it is)

    On ragefire, there is a box guild that runs like 70+ boxes, and our guild still kills every single velious raid encounter, about twice a week, on average. Plenty of content to go around. We effectively get more kills per week on average than your standard phini guild, and we only really raid 3 maybe 4 nights a week.

    The funny part about all of this, like with previous TLPs (I get the sense most of the people who hate boxers have never played on a TLP before), as the expansions trudge on, you're going to wish you were able to box, as most guilds will eventually have to start filling slots with something, and new players aren't going to keep coming to phini. Good luck!
  3. Sterilize Journeyman

    I already do box, manually, with 6 computers. And yeah it's true you can compile it for free yourself, just most people dont bother trying. I think the premise was that if eqmule helped avoid this being on phinigel that DBG wouldnt bother people using it on other servers.

    Either way there are very cheap computers and supplying eqbc, will make this server feel like ragefire again, and these box teams can go raiding for their own rmt loot once a week also.
  4. Kartas New Member

    Do you use GINA (Gimagukk's Incantory Notation Apparatus) on Boss fights ? (3rd party program)
    Do you use GamParse or another Combat Parser .... again 3rd Party Program
    Do you have a 3D audio extension installed with multiple speakers so you know directions of sounds ? (3rd party)

    Lets not throw stones at eqmule. Everquest lacks a basic apparatus for add-ons and this is what eqmule provides. I will grant that It can go further then a normal "add-on" for other games; however that was due to falling subscriptions a player bases, and eqmule is actively working to solve the "afk automation" issues.

    Phinnegal and True Box is successful for 2 things ... Raid Instances and 1 account per computer. the 1 account per computer and no VMs is what makes the box armies disappear. Its hard to find someone with enough prowess to actually get more then 6 comps up and running stable in this environment.

    The people complaining here actually only remember the bad parts of people with 100 mages camping everything. That is unlikely to return.

    There are other 3rd party solutions that work directly off of chat logs ... that is automation you can't avoid ... so a /g Follow me ... and every box hits its /follow macro .... yeah you don't need eqmule for that one.

    What DBG should do is actually hire eqmule ... have him and the M Q community evolve the system for proper addon's and then be incorporated into EQ. If this were a DBG announcement of "official addons" all you people would be installing a CURSE client and getting exactly what eqmule and devs provides.

    People can cheat regardless ... either help by testing with him or get out of his way.

    And yes I subbed to eqmule for LJ server and miss the convenience of knowing vendor prices and notes on mobs that I use to take ... but as a player I wouldn't automate ... have some self respect.

    If you have never used it ... your missing out ... and you don't know what it offers / what it cannot do. Its the easy whipping boy. Unfortunately for eqmule there are sites that take and bastardize his work for the cheaters, those are the sites that need to be put on a leash, not him.





  5. Risiko Augur

    It offers features that you DO NOT GET from the Everquest client. The only way to get those features is to PAY EQMULE.

    END OF STORY.
    Your_Ad_Here likes this.
  6. Eangel Elder

    eqmule does not charge for m q source. it's free. Way to fact check.
    Ravengloome likes this.
  7. Sterilize Journeyman

    Sorry but I don't completely agree that because people have to use one computer per account, that that is why there are less boxers. You do understand that EQBC can send commands to a minimized computer? So let's say you live in a big household, you havent been able to box, not because you dont have more than one computer but because you arent good enough or able to access these computers to manually box.

    Now you EQBC. All you need is to connect them together via EQBC, you can minimize the game so your mother's computer won't be interferred with, your girlfriend's computer won't be interferred with. Let's say you have a work computer, but it's too far from your house (lol) but hey EQBC can control that one from home also.

    Computers are too expensive? Go buy a "kangaroo PC" for $99, PLUG IT IN, install eqbc, bam you're a boxer now. You dont need a keyboard, a mouse, a monitor, doesnt have to be near you. Remote it, log it in, connect to eqbc, and close the remote. Send your commands from your main desktop.

    DBG has actively been against broadcasting, and this in my opinion was more of a wrecking ball to boxers than the one account per computer. Many many people started the first week thinking fine, I have multiple computers I can manage, then they stopped IS boxer from working. They said no broadcasting, and that was the road block. Sure there are people out there that have found other broadcasting programs, but this is a different level. I'm sure those broadcasting programs require the game to be the active window, not minimized, it might actually need to be on the same network. EQBC doesn't need that, minimize the game, have the computer in china, hell go rent a computer from those companies that rent them in a warehouse, still works with EQBC.

    Here's a video that will show that:


    I'd think if EQBC wasn't in the compile then it would be a decent addon, but you will be seeing more boxers because of this believe it. If people thought AE groups training them and stealing their was annoying, there will be boxers, maybe not 30 unless someone buys 30 kangaroo pcs, but 6 boxers sure, maybe 12. If DBG allows this then why wouldnt people go box 12? Sure 12 kangaroos could cost 1200, but if you can lock down drusella for 15 krono every few days, or kill naggy/vox twice a week (12 boxes = 2 groups = 2 instances per week) then you'll make that back just fine.
  8. Ethereal Augur

    Wait...so you're saying that this Hyper-V VM I created (btw, hyper-v comes free with windows 10 and 8.1 pro) wont let me connect two accounts to a true box server? That's weird...
  9. Ravengloome Augur


    Lets be real here, it would be awesome if EQ had a toggle for Group/Raid/Trade auto accepting, and /stick command.

    I don't know about #3 though nah. But /stick and Auto accept? that should have been a thing 15 years ago.
  10. Goodkitty Augur

    I think stick is fine personally and should be implemented into the game. All of that other is automated.
    Ravengloome likes this.
  11. Sterilize Journeyman

    Lol, nice but now who wants to touch that, *dbg adds that to their scan and you now get banned*

    [IMG]
  12. Kartas New Member

    @Sterilize ... ok lets run your scenario
    1st you posted a video from one of the people that steals and redistributes eqmule's work expressly forbidden in the license of his code ... but they are cheaters so not surprising.
    2nd ... $99 per box + sub fee. so just to setup "another account" I'm in around $115 USD. ok .. so 6 boxes ... $680 usd ... and 100 boxes ... $11,500 USD. Excuse me for laughing a bit when taken to the extreme.

    EQBC ... again .. not anything that can't be done via a /log watching program like GINA or gamparse triggers. You rail against a machine that isn't an issue ... its providing a fair playing ground.

    The real issue is FULL AFK Automation. with /macro gone there at least has to be a person at the controls, unless someone develops a pretty decent AI script that can monitor it all from the LOGS.

    I'm not happy to have it in full .. but I'd rather have it controlled then wild. Again Eqmule has gone above and beyond in providing a great API that DBG should consider rolling into EQ ... where they can fully TURN off the M Q engine .. and provide a functional API that Eqmule has already built. With solid addons by a great community.

    Some of the arguments that are made here are akin to the FPS players that cry when someone has a better framerate and monitor that cannot be afforded .. and you get your butt handed to you in a match. You don't know how to write your own custom plugin to do what you want ? ask in the forums ... you think its to much automation ... allows afk botting ... please put it up. I have read EQmule's posts for over a decade, the person is respectful and his team is very helpful. I just ask that the EQ community pursue the same. I commend Eqmule for coming out of the grey side of things and opening a discussion here on the DBG forums and hope that this remains constructive and even is seen by DBG as a helpful addition to the community.

    Respectfully,
    Kartas
  13. Ethereal Augur

  14. Sterilize Journeyman


    MMObugs doesn't steal eqmule's work, he's actually a forum member there, perhaps he gets kickbacks like he does on red guides who has the actual phinigel compile available for sale, where he is also a member. He posts the source code also on his m q 2 website. Nonetheless the video was to show what it can do, it doesn't matter where the video came from, eqmule has allowed red guides to sell their phinigel compile so let's just say you get it from there instead, or you compiled it yourself. Broadcasting is against the rules on phinigel. Plain and simple.

    https://www.everquest.com/news/true-box-progression-server-faq-phinigel

    Sure it says 3rd party software there, so yeah people use gina and gamparse, but how can they prove that in game? Not saying its right but hard to enforce those two programs. Now you have EQBC watching someone tell a few casters to cast same spell at once, thats pretty obvious. What other reason would they have disallowed I S Boxer on phinigel other than broadcasting?

    And wow, I didnt know GINA could broadcast to multiple computers across multiple networks. I've only ever used that for boss fights knowing when they will cast their special move again. Respectfully, I really doubt that gina can do the same thing as EQBC. Please show me.

    Yes 100 computers is extreme. But you dont need 100 boxes. 6 is reasonable, 12 is too. I didn't say eqmule was disrespectful or not a nice person.

    I also commend him for the extra addons I just dont think EQBC is something to be included. But hey havent heard from RadarX or any GM so maybe they dont care. It's ultimately up to them and the players who keep paying to decide.

    Also you dont need /macro to automate things, m q 2melee can with /if statements but eqmule has claimed that he removed the functionality of /if. So from there you would just rely on maybe autoit to afk press your ingame socials which control other characters via EQBC. You could just do like people do at fire beetles in Paineel, just /pet attack <name of mob here> but in larger scale by grouping like 6 mages and saying /bcg //pet attack <name of mob> and then autoit can happily afk press that button to tell the 6 mages to. I mean sure if you're at the computer its not afk but it certainly is a very very fine line and we know DBG wants people controlling multiple characters at the click of one social button.
  15. sihpa Augur

    You guys are so ridiculous in your application of logic. Nit-picking your way through rules to a conclusion that ultimately destroys your own enterprise. Take a look at the server populations and note that phinny is THE most populous server in EQland, even with draconian (id argue especially because of) rules that enforce a level playing field and limit individuals ability to cause grief for others, while all the other servers are marginal populationwise.

    Because it is so populous I understand it appears ideal to set up your enterprise there. However, its the LACK of your enterprise that has brought people to the server. When you set up shop people will leave. This is flat out proven by RF and LJ and all the other servers where your programs are legit. Since your programs destroy the communities on those servers, theres a lack of population to sell your kronos to, and you have to find a new place to exploit. Its a straight up crack dealer, vicious cycle, mentality that leaves nothing but ruin in its wake.

    Look, some of you sound reasonably intelligent. Figure out a better way to channel your efforts into something constructive instead of continuing to destroy your own livelihood/passtime.

    DBG needs to address this like yesterday.
    Mezrah, Lithien and Sterilize like this.
  16. Baldur Augur

    /stick works on mobs, auto follow doesn't. /stick allows you to automate melees because they always stay in melee range.

    Those arguing that it doesn't give you an advantage are wrong.
  17. Kartas New Member

    Baldur,
    I agree it is an advantage no doubt, but is it game breaking? Those of us using GINA for raids have an advantage over those that do not in dodging AoEs better. /stick on the big nasty and walking away when you are being AoEd to death is probably not a good idea.

    I'm not saying this stuff doesn't give people an advantage, but I question if people choose to play vanilla no Quality of Life Everquest. i.e. Meditating without staring at the damn book, having a full screen instead of the small 3D box, those original players know what I mean.

    I'm advocating that some of this work be rolled out and stamped by DBG to be "ok" as they can "whitelist". Am I a fan of EQBC? ... it leads to more the 1 keyboard or keypress being able to control multiple boxes at once ... If that was the only advantage as the video shows (poor video IMHO)
    If EQBC was enhanced to only have commands associated per name .. like in the Video ... however you can then have a normal eq command send the Monko //sit and Ponko //sit on line 2 ... so not very helpful.

    But let's talk about /stick ... it is a better /follow command. Eqmule has also said he might not allow during combat for future builds. I'm interested to see where it goes.

    Is it an advantage when the full player base has free access to it ? Is it an advantage that someone has less lag during raids then someone else ? I'm trying to wrap my head around the "advantage" vs. "unfair advantage". I have an advantage because of GamParse and the DPS meter thus giving me a sudo-Agro meter that is not in on Phinny. Should I unistall ? or should I encourage other wizards and DPS to use the DPS meter. I rarely die from pulling agro off the tank .. I am advantaged ? Yes ... Unfairly ? ... Not sure.

    I don't want to go back to RF LJ times and watch every mob camped by a 6 mage AFK Bot-team that is programmed to answer the Camp Check, that automatically can /pick over to farm every instance up while someone sleeps, but the Pets are already automated to an extent of protecting their master.

    With EQBC .. you could potentially have one person run a full cleric chain ... that's advantageous, but unless the rest of the people can do their job ... the clerics will run out of mana ... and no /macro automation means that chanters still have to work their mez timers, tanks still have to get position and disc correctly ... and DPS needs to burn correctly .... Again though .. its a tool coming out of the shadows .. and one we can help develop properly instead of the home grown ones being used now.

    There is no doubt a tightrope on this one. As much as I'd love to help test and offer solid commentary from what works or doesn't on Phinny ... I'm reluctant to place my accounts on the noose if DBG decides to toss out a ban hammer. Do we have a "silent OK on this?" from DBG ... I'm not sure.

    I'm also not sure that EQmule would have done it without a wait and see attitude from DBG considering all the work that went into the Phinny block from DBG and EQmule.

    Anyone have anything concrete ?
  18. Risiko Augur

    It is RULE BREAKING. What else needs to be said.
  19. Intin Elder

    [IMG]
  20. Sterilize Journeyman

    Play the tank only, make a social button to tell the cleric to complete heal you via eqbc. Mq2melee will have your melee stick when you tell it to stick to your target and auto attack via a social, mq2melee can also be defined to say when to use discs or skills, so your melee will dps just fine.

    Mez's? Sure make a social to cast mez on the warriors target, /bct enchanter //casting "enthrall" -targetid|${Target.ID}, which would be another social that wouldnt have to assist first, the enchanter would automatically target the ID of the mob the warrior is targetting.

    You literally will just play the warrior and control the rest of the group at a click of a few buttons or maybe one or two if you combine these lines into a social which has room for 5 lines. MQ2melee will handle taunt, backstab, flying kick automatically, and if you have casters you hit one button so they cast nuke until its dead, and you can control your cleric to CH at your own will via one button social. /bct caster //casting nuke -kill

    Shaman slow? Sure, /bct shaman //casting torgor's insects -retries|3 this will cast slow up to 3 times if resisted, then you could add a /pause and then do /bct shaman //casting cripple -retries|3 so pretty much can one click social to tell your shaman to slow and cripple while you focus on other things, while your casters are still nuking until it dies and your melee are automatically clicking backstab etc and are stuck to the mob.

    It's not afk but it sure as hell is a lot easier than alt tabbing and doing it, or having to go to another keyboard/mouse to play a diff char.
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