Thank you. Rogue pickpocket message is a welcome change

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Zrender, Apr 21, 2022.

  1. Trox2010 Augur

    I'm actually hoping DPG is just as bad about banning the HG bots as all the past TLPs since I am planning on leveling my pick pocket off them.
    Zrender likes this.
  2. Regismkv New Member

    I mean at lvl 50 you can pickpocket the "grey" lvl 6 orcs in commonlands, and max out in like 5 minutes. You can get multiple skill ups off the same dude for like 10 or so picks til he's out of loot then murder him and move on to the next one
  3. Trox2010 Augur

    Yeah but the lvl 6 orcs don't carry as much money as the Hill Giants. I'm not just looking to max out my skills, but to make good money while I do so.
  4. Regismkv New Member

    You're not going to make "good" money pickpocketing hill giants unless you're getting your fair share of the kills in which case the pp did nothing anyway. For every PP of 20plat or more or a FS weapon, you will get 50 picks of nothing, silver or copper or words or runes. If others are killing them you'll likely only get 2 shots of PP per giant and that's only if you catch it at near full life.

    Don't get me wrong its a fun way to spend an hour aggravating plat farmers (though the botters won't even notice of course), you're not gonna get rich off it, not at the rate of everyone else on the hill anyway. Unless you're raking in the kills it gets old pretty quick, and even with your 1.0 you're not ksing or preventing yourself from being ks'd by anyone on that hill without a group, which apparently invalidates the purpose of this thread.
  5. Ragnoruk Augur

    With so many people using the "eyes" program, trackers in EQ haven't had an advantage for many years now either.
  6. Hirbow Augur

    You make decent money doing drive-by's.. lol
  7. Zrender Augur

    As for giants, your numbers are wrong, mate. 50 picks to get 20pp? Nah. Maybe your pickpocket skill was low. I hadn't done what Trox was suggesting so I just popped into rathe mountains on my Mischief rogue and did 10 giants only counting the first 2 pickpockets based on your theory that you would only get 2 attempts. I did not count the cash after the kill because we're assuming this would mostly be leeching off bots that would be getting the kill.
    I did 63p and that's not even counting gold. You could do maybe up to 200-300p per hour with probably 100p as the least you'd make. Is that the best plat in the game? No, not at all. But it's decent for a 50 rogue just killing time for a little plat on a new server and fighting the good fight vs some necrobots :)

    Purpose of the thread is actually to ask for a small buff in exchange for the message nerf and make it more common knowledge that groups don't need to worry about rogues pickpocketing without them knowing about it which helps rogues to get groups.
  8. Regismkv New Member

    I'm sure the mileage on your 70 rogue picking hill giants varies greatly from a lvl 30 or even 50, but even assuming it doesn't, as you said yourself you could do almost anything else in the game to make more money and raising the skill can be done much quicker without having to trek to the end of nowhere to do it while making subpar money. Furthermore, while sticking it to bots can be amusing, the last thing you want to do as a rogue is piss off the people on your server (non-bots just farming some plat) that you might need one day for groups by picking their giants (rogues tend to be a rare class don't assume they're just gonna forget about you.)

    Which leads us to your second paragraph and the flaw with the OP's theory on rogues. This change would and will do nothing to "help" rogues get more groups. Despite what some people seem to think, people don't deny rogues groups because they think they're stealing money. I mean hell a huge chunk of the mobs (in the more popular leveling zones) through classic track of befallen, unrest, lowerguk aren't even pickable in the first place. Same thing in velks and so on and so forth. Now with the reclass of mobs maybe undead are pickable now? The reason rogues don't get groups is because they are an inferior class. From classic to velious, pretty much any dps in the lfg is going to bring more to the group than a rog, whether that is better dps, decent dps and good utility or even both at the same time, and there will be multiple dozens of these "better" options in the lfg in the beginning. Yes with every expac from Kunark onward rogues get significantly better, that said they still never catch up to the point that they really need to be at. Monks will always outshine you for the relevant life of a TLP, hell even rangers will give you a run for you money for the parts that they are bowing (and they're bringing utility).

    It would be nice if it happened, but I don't see rogues ever getting a small buff from this company, and truth be told rogues don't need a small buff, they need a big buff for the first 12 xpacs or so per the other rogue thread floating around somewhere in this section.
    Appren likes this.
  9. Trox2010 Augur

    My god aren't we just a Mr. Negative Nancy. You must be like an atom bomb at parties; everyone joking, laughing, having a great time, and then you enter and BOOM everything is dead.

    Yes I know there will be quicker easier ways to get Pick Pocket skilled up, yes I know I won't be rolling in the plat picking the bot groups Hill Giant pockets, and yes I know it will be more effort than its worth. The joke; Mr. Literal Larry, was about NOT wanting the BOT groups banned which goes against the grain of just about every thread in the TLP forums. And just so we are clear; MR. Humorless Harry, I really don't care if the joke amuses you or not because it amuses me and in the end that's all that matters, imo.
    Stymie, Haak and Zrender like this.
  10. Zrender Augur

    My rogue there is 50, hombre. Rogue dps is ok in classic. Good if you have decent weaps and use bandolier. Rogues can also get to the group when it's deep in a dungeon. Something that can be a huge hassle with some classes. It's a bit odd how much rogue hatred you seem to have. Humorous, yes, but still odd. Maybe you should do some parsing in early game pugs with a good rogue then come back here and talk about it. Pickpocket change will absolutely help to get groups, I know this because I've seen the discussions in many groups at gem dropping pickable camps. Will it be some amazeballs change? No but it's something. I'd also challenge you, as a SOLO 50 rogue in classic to "do almost anything else" and make more than 200-300p per hour. There are things, sure, but that's a huge exaggeration. Give us a list please.
    Stymie likes this.
  11. Haak Augur

    Step 1: Name your character 'Sticky Fingers'.
    Step 2: Upon joining a group each time, spend a few minutes roleplaying how you were recently released from the jail in Highkeep. You did some hard time for burglary.
    Step 3: Pickpocket every time that skill is off cooldown.
    Step 4: Every time someone complains, say something like "Old habits die hard!" or "Ohhh, Sticky you've done it again!".

    Now you've found a way to completely circumvent any negative social component while picking those kills dry, because you as the player might agree with the group, but Sticky the character clearly can't help themselves.
    Stymie, Juantothre and Zrender like this.
  12. Regismkv New Member

    I don't really agree with the concept that rogues need special little things, particularly poking your finger in the eyes of other players as a reward for playing an "undesireable class." What rogues really need is to just not be a garbage can class for the early parts of a TLP. What rogues really need as a group dependent class is to be a highly desirable class for groups.

    Regarding the topic of this thread and pickpocket, a much better solution would be to just make it so pickpocket does in fact draw from a secondary loot table that can only be accessed by rogues. Next, just make it so gems no longer drop from mobs. You want gems for jewelcrafting, you'll have to buy em from a vendor now. Rare gems like blue diamonds etc and even some other crafting materials can only be obtained and brought onto the server through pickpocket. Can even make it so the ability automatically puts this loot into the advanced loot so rogues can't just keep the secondary loot table for themselves. With this one of our unique class skills (of a group dependent class) actually benefits a group. Another way to say that is we've created GROUP UTILITY for the rogue class. Now when it comes time to find a replacement for your grind group you might hear, "Hey there's a rog in lfg, scoop it up and maybe we can start getting some gems or other crafting mats that can only be produced through pickpocket."

    Of course that will never happen, so the only realistic solution to making rogues a more desirable candidate for groups is to increase their dps to competitive levels. At a minimum I'd say rogue dps competitiveness needs to be on OoW levels from CLASSIC. Rogues shouldn't have to wait 2 or 3 months for each xpac to receive incremental dps boosts one xpac at a time. It shouldn't take a rogue 6 to 9 ish months to become decent enough, and 18ish months to become legit competitive.
  13. Branntick Augur

    Tbh even OoW level Rogue dps isn't good enough, but I'm greedy. Rogues and Wizards should be top fragging by a minimum of 10-15% from classic, and never drop off.
    Zrender likes this.
  14. Regismkv New Member

    I was just being conservative with the estimate, but I completely agree.

    Branntick for president of EQ!!
  15. Zrender Augur

    Yeah, maybe I was annoying them with posts lol. I asked for the separate loot table or to confirm it already was a separate loot table (I knew it wasn't but some people thought that) then I asked them if they couldn't do that to please do something else to prevent people from avoiding rogues because they didn't want things stolen. Can't say they did this based on that request but they may have. This is just one admittedly tiny thing that ~probably helps more than it hurts but rogues need more.
    I'd like them to do the change to reduce apply poison time (for classic poisons) to instant or maybe .5 to 1s. That's my preferred buff because it takes something mostly useless and makes it situationally useful (if expensive). If not that then I was thinking another easy thing to innocuously make rogues more desirable in groups would be some kind of group buff that stacks with everything except other rogues that increases the whole group's crit chance, so, with a rogue everyone would have a small chance to crit in classic and better chance later on.
    Edit: I do also really like your extra loot for the group that's only from pickpocket and drops in advanced loot idea. I just have doubts they will put in that level of work for this. Guessing the instant apply poison is probably the easiest one to do (very possibly just a table entry or #define), followed by some kind of group buff.
  16. Erekai Journeyman

    I just want to say, I hate this change. I also saw chatter about there being a separate loot table for pickpocketing? I can't verify, but I just spent many minutes attempting to pick the pockets of a level 26 DE NPC, and for probably 30ish picks in a row, I got nothing (and the "failure" message three times. hate that message), then when I killed it, it dropped some coin. So either there are separate loot tables, or it's actually impossible to steal ALL the coin from an enemy.

    And if there *are* separate loot tables, then why have the message at all? Just seems silly. This takes away one of my favorite aspects of the Rogue. Now they're even less desireable for me to play. They practically straight-up lose to Monks in DPS, they have WAY less utility than Monks, and now they can't even sneakily steal from the group to line their own pockets? Yes I realize this may possibly mean that they will get more group invites because then people will have to be less worried that the Rogue is stealing loot, but at what cost?

    Tell me you don't want anyone playing Rogues, without telling me you don't want anyone playing Rogues, DarkPaw... What do they bring to the table anymore, if they can't even be a little selfish? Why even have this skill if THE MOST group-dependent class in the game can't even use it in their groups or else be booted/ostracized?

    Terrible change.
  17. Barton The Mischievous

    No there is no separate loot table Devs have said it is the same loot the mob would drop sec getting link

    3rd Post down
  18. Zanarnar Augur

    Love the message, set an audio trigger for it and kick the offender immediately. Really simplifies removing greedy players from your groups.

    As for the whole "its part of my kit" response ... this sums it up.
  19. Erekai Journeyman

    Then it's an entirely pointless ability that they only have for flavor? Oh and to do the first part of their 1.0 Epic? Rogues are easily the most group dependent class in the game. They can't solo well at all, and if there are no alternate loot tables for pickpocket, why would a Rogue ever bother using it when soloing? And now with this garbage message, why would a Rogue ever use it in a group?

    So if the aim was to help Rogues get groups, and there is no other situation when a Rogue would use the skill, then why not just remove the skill from the game? It's pointless to even have the skill now.

    This isn't what Rogues needed to make them, the class that is the most group dependent in the game, more desirable for groups...

    Extremely stupid and pointless change. Give Rogues what they actually need, not this.
  20. The_Grim_Ogre New Member

    The least played class just had one it's more fun aspects taken away. Way to go Devs.
    Erekai likes this.