Test Update 8/01/2014 - Pet Changes

Nice parses, RBD!

Some of the numbers that jumped out at me:
1) Defensed hits. Even the earth pet is seeing almost 20% overall here. So pets have some meaningful avoidance, even if it's still significantly less than player tanks.
2) DI1 hits. I think the current tuning still may not have corrected enough, given that:
Earth pet is at 138/464 (~29%)
Air is at 144/411 (~24%)
Water is at 148/476 (~31%)
Fire is at 157/523 (~30%)

Given that the stated goal was around 35-45%, it seems pets are currently tanking better than the stated intent. It might be that the mob you parsed against has a low ATK value or any other number of factors. Before knee-jerking into conclusions, I hope more pet users publicly share their data!

I'm with you on the numbers but not on the conclusion. Wouldn't having less than 35% of hits DI1 mean they were tanking worse than the stated intent?

Haha, yep. DI1s are the smallest hits.

Necro Warrior - EM19 - Fort running for some, but pet dieing constantly with me spamming heals and wards and merc on reactive.

/GU Tanking summary for: Shennron --- Total damage: 2832657 --- Avg hit: 11705 --- Swings: 415 --- Defended: 126 (30.4%) --- Hit: 242 (58.3%) --- Missed: 47 (11.3%) --- Accuracy: 83.7% --- Dodged: 14 (3.8%) --- Parried: 14 (3.5%) --- Blocked: 14 (3.4%) --- Riposted: 23 (5.9%) --- Absorbed: 61 (14.7%)

EM20 earth pet, max AA, merc buffs, burnout rk3, iceflame rk3, and that's it.

/7 Tanking summary for: Mobstopper (Nylrem) - Total damage: 13457164 - Avg hit: 9887 - Swings: 2021 - Defended: 481 (23.8%) - Hit: 1361 (67.3%) - Missed: 179 (8.9%) - Accuracy: 88.4% - Dodged: 49 (2.7%) - Parried: 44 (2.3%) - Blocked: 110 (5.4%) - Riposted: 58 (3.1%) - Absorbed: 220 (10.9%)

Mobstopper (Nylrem) - vs - Shoon
Attempts 2021 100%
Missed 179 8.86%
Dodged 49 2.42%
Parried 44 2.18%
Blocked 110 5.44%
Riposted 58 2.87%
Absorbed 220 10.89%
2663 2 0.1%
2958 56 2.77%
2959 5 0.25%
2964 1 0.05%
2966 1 0.05%
2970 1 0.05%
2972 3 0.15%
2981 2 0.1%
2983 1 0.05%
2986 2 0.1%
2988 1 0.05%
2990 2 0.1%
2994 1 0.05%
2997 1 0.05%
2999 1 0.05%
3496 7 0.35%
3884 348 17.22%
4330 1 0.05%
4811 50 2.47%
5165 1 0.05%
5738 52 2.57%
5999 1 0.05%
6665 47 2.33%
6833 1 0.05%
7592 48 2.38%
7667 1 0.05%
8501 1 0.05%
8518 53 2.62%
9335 3 0.15%
9445 64 3.17%
10170 2 0.1%
10372 44 2.18%
11004 2 0.1%
11299 58 2.87%
11838 1 0.05%
12226 46 2.28%
12672 1 0.05%
13153 62 3.07%
13507 1 0.05%
14080 49 2.42%
14341 3 0.15%
15007 42 2.08%
15175 2 0.1%
15934 38 1.88%
16009 1 0.05%
16861 41 2.03%
17787 26 1.29%
17902 1 0.05%
18714 34 1.68%
19346 4 0.2%
19641 32 1.58%
20568 24 1.19%
21495 89 4.4%

Highest damage spike was 66,515 vs Shoon.

Was 33 spikes over 50k dps during that 1032s fight.

I had 2 healer mercs, 1 on reactive 1 on balanced, plus a real cleric healing, promised heals blocked.

Without the real cleric, pet wouldn't have lived. 2 healer mercs wouldn't have been enough to keep pet alive.

Oh, also, RS pets are just poofing... whatever you did to them, you really need to revert back.

Pets tanking this much worse is not good, and will not be received well. But TWO of our highest DPS spells getting the kibosh on top of that will be the icing on the cake.

2-3 hits from group trash mobs is killing our RS pets. A single riposte from a raid mob will, I'm sure. This not only will kill the DPS of the swarm pet spell, but also Salvo of Many, because pets won't be on the mob. A single AE or a single riposte, and they're dead.

If left this way, swarms would essentially only be useful occasionally. You will definitely tick off the ENTIRE mage community if RS pets go live like this.

man, that's sad. Especially considering a raid geared warrior (supposedly at least somewhat comparable to a EM20, pretty much the highest raid EM around since 21 is so rare), could tank shoon with 2 healer mercs (3? I think he may have had 1 apprentice), until he killed it with his own riposte dps, so a long time

EM20 Air pet vs Shoon, same buffs as Earth:

/7 Tanking summary for: Mobstopper (Nylrem) - Total damage: 11890073 - Avg hit: 10731 - Swings: 1769 - Defended: 510 (28.8%) - Hit: 1108 (62.6%) - Missed: 151 (8.5%) - Accuracy: 88% - Dodged: 66 (4.3%) - Parried: 41 (2.5%) - Blocked: 133 (7.5%) - Riposted: 43 (2.7%) - Absorbed: 227 (12.8%)

Mobstopper (Nylrem) - vs - Shoon
Attempts 1769 100%
Missed 151 8.54%
Dodged 66 3.73%
Parried 41 2.32%
Blocked 133 7.52%
Riposted 43 2.43%
Absorbed 227 12.83%
2663 1 0.06%
2680 1 0.06%
2958 41 2.32%
2959 6 0.34%
2961 1 0.06%
2964 1 0.06%
2966 1 0.06%
2968 2 0.11%
2972 1 0.06%
2975 3 0.17%
2977 1 0.06%
2983 1 0.06%
2986 1 0.06%
2988 1 0.06%
3001 2 0.11%
3496 4 0.23%
3884 217 12.27%
4330 3 0.17%
4811 34 1.92%
5165 1 0.06%
5738 33 1.87%
6665 44 2.49%
6833 2 0.11%
7592 40 2.26%
7667 2 0.11%
8518 52 2.94%
9335 2 0.11%
9445 47 2.66%
10170 1 0.06%
10372 51 2.88%
11004 3 0.17%
11299 40 2.26%
11838 2 0.11%
12226 48 2.71%
12377 1 0.06%
12672 1 0.06%
13153 48 2.71%
13507 2 0.11%
14080 43 2.43%
14341 1 0.06%
15007 45 2.54%
15175 2 0.11%
15934 28 1.58%
16009 1 0.06%
16843 2 0.11%
16861 38 2.15%
17787 30 1.7%
18714 30 1.7%
19346 1 0.06%
19641 23 1.3%
20568 29 1.64%
21495 93 5.26%

If developers are shooting for 30-35% of hits to be DI 1... they kinda missed the mark. Like, wild pitch over the backstop kinda miss.

Incoming DPS spiked to 68,369 vs air pet, with 19 spikes over 50k in 911 seconds.

I think you guys failed to understand the devs... That 30-35% D1 figure was for trash mobs.

I think the conclusion was back to front on the 35-45% vs 29%, however the more interesting thing here is how they're all so similar to each other (bar Air). I'd expect Earth pet to be having more DI1 figures than parsed above, with maybe the others having fewer, so the difference is clearer between the archtypes.

DI spread isn't all that matters. I prefer to check incoming DPS.

Actually looking at the graphs again I think the earth conclusion is misleading. 495 total hits (hit+bash+kick), or 464 hit only. 60 possible hit types in graph (3 types of hits, so matches). However we see 138x1811, 61x2263 and then a smattering of all the others. Where are the 2263 hits coming from? They can't be bash or kick as there were only 19 and 12 hits respectively. Therefore the 2263 spike must also be from hit. Given the size of the other hits, perhaps it is DI2. Or perhaps it is DI1 but under a different condition (eg with and without a buff).

So DI1 is ~29%, but DI1+DI2 is 43%. If we could get just a hit distribution with the kick/bash removed it may be more obvious. Put simply, are there more than 20 samples for the hit distribution?

I'm not sure where the devs are aiming for, but that is still a quite different distribution to normal where we see a large DI1 (sometimes a large DI20 depending on AC vs atk) and everything else low, rather than a more poisson style distribution.

They both matter. DI spread is what dictates how well it will scale up when you add in additional healers (I think this is what got the tanks so riled). DPS is what matters when you want to factor in mana used to heal. Both sort of matter when it comes down to survivability.

But if the devs said they expect 35-45% DI1 then it's something to look for, and it's more meaningful than a dps figure which varies so much from mob to mob.

I think the dev goal was achieved insofar as it applies to level 100 trash mobs vs. mage earth pets.

Obviously it's way off the mark when using Shoon and necro pets.

Necros not being able to use their pets to tank current content was a logical outcome of this tuning.

Of course, whether their goal was achieved is less relevant, ultimately, to the quality of their game than whether their goal was on the mark in the first place...

In fact, that's one of the weaknesses of describing goals via DI1 %. There's a huge difference in incoming DPS between a situation in which it's DI1 0% of the times, but DI2 80% of the times, and a situation in which it's DI1 40% of the times, and DI20 40% of the times. A constructed example, but this is one situation where it's a lot easier to quantify the change with DPS.

For example, pets taking an extra 50% DPS, regardless of DI, is a huge nerf.

I also think the stated goal of making mage RS pets paper thin is ridiculous and that, in combination with the main pet nerf, makes the class a joke.

But that's just me.

Good catch. I'm not sure where the hits are coming from. It's possible the pet went under defensive (RBD did say no pet buffs were used, but didn't say anything about pet hold), and the number of DI1 hits would in that case be much higher. If both values are DI1, then the earth pet is anomalous compared to the others - its DI1 hit percentage would be 43%, whereas water/fire are ~29% and air is ~24%.

It's interesting to note and curious. Which is why more people parsing the better - perhaps something weird happened here or perhaps this is normal, but the best way to find out is to have more people publicly post their data.

They're missing the mark on trash mobs too. I went over to Test and hit some mobs in Tower of Rot. Pet is Bst warder, EM 15, no gear, bst buffs only, Withering Bite proc on.

Note: This is "hits" only (i.e., no kick, bash, etc.) to show a proper DI 1-20. I see other people are combining total attacks, which is going to skew the results.


Underdog - vs - Combined: An archaic trilobite
Attempts 1422 100%
Missed 92 6.47%
Dodged 43 3.02%
Parried 53 3.73%
Blocked 96 6.75%
Riposted 46 3.23%
Absorbed 155 10.9%
2665 259 18.21%
3251 36 2.53%
3836 38 2.67%
4422 35 2.46%
5008 53 3.73%
5594 41 2.88%
6180 38 2.67%
6765 40 2.81%
7351 41 2.88%
7937 42 2.95%
8523 37 2.6%
9109 39 2.74%
9694 36 2.53%
10280 31 2.18%
10866 21 1.48%
11452 23 1.62%
12038 21 1.48%
12623 25 1.76%
13209 17 1.2%
13795 64 4.5%