Test Update 5/10/2022 - Patch Notes and Discussions

Discussion in 'Test Update Notes and Bug Roundup' started by EQ Dev, May 9, 2022.

  1. Qimble Augur

    I'd be curious what the strat for aaryonar is where you don't have healers LoS Grolik to avoid the silence. Unlike pulling Sontalak off the tiles to avoid the aura I can't really think of a situation where the common strat for a recent raid was obviously counter to developer intent. Maybe doorway tanking on Oubliette? LoSing the suck in is a mechanic that makes total sense, no reason for players to not think it was an intended way for them to handle that emote.
  2. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    And you think that a full raid of people casting and procing every second isn't going to outnumber the extra dots that tick every 6 seconds? If we go back to the procs we had before and people procd 10 spells on a cast/proc it would only take 10 people to match the extra dots in a single cast and there are more people casting then that. Even if we go to a lower proc count it doesn't take long for the number of casts to exceed the number of dots. And we won't be seeing a full set of those dots on all the mobs that a raid is fighting.
  3. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Your right we might not know the intent behind it, just saying that they have changed it in the past and are likely to change it in the future.
    ChiiChii likes this.
  4. Mazame Augur

    All they did is change how to avoid it. So now instead of running behind a wall if you get the emote you Gate. If your not in the zone the effect wont hurt everyone else. We had people do this when they were snared and not able to make it behind a wall. I see becoming the new work around as the aura is just to big to get away in the allotted time with snare and other effects going off.
  5. Mazame Augur

    Just gate when your called.

    P.S. Miss you and Vic.
    Winnowyl likes this.
  6. Qimble Augur

    When we had tried that, the person wound up being the only person who survived a wipe. We assumed they made the aura stick around after you zone out to prevent gating from working, but if that strat has worked for you maybe we were just having bad server lag. I don't think we have tried it since release day.
  7. Evye Augur

    I'm almost always 140 casts or less from OOM in full burn =(

    Hobitses likes this.
  8. Svann2 The Magnificent

    Ive been told that if you gate the aura lands on someone else.
  9. Gabrieles Lorekeeper

    We have had people gate and it call someone else almost immediately. During the worst lag time they gate and the game isn't seeing them out of zone so it hits anyway.
  10. Cicelee Augur

    Raiders should be prepared to raid. Close the gate requires you to have the ability to levitate yourself, cast underwater breathing on yourself, etc. If you don't or someone doesn't help you, then you die.

    Goranga event, you need to DA if you get called. You don't or someone isn't there to heal you and keep you alive, then you die.

    Why are raiders so afraid of dying on a raid? You die, you get a rez, you get back up and continue helping the raid.
  11. Windance Augur

    There is a HUGE difference between getting clickies for levitate and underwater breathing. Those are fairly easy to obtain and have fast reuse timers.

    DA's on the other hand have long recast timers so clickies DA's aren't really the answer. Yes, you can assign people to do DA's to those who are called, but ...

    The event has been active for months with LOS as the go to option for dealing with the emote.

    Why "fix" it now?

    Does it make the event "more fun"?
    Metanis likes this.
  12. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Because they noticed it was not working as intended? They have fixed other AE's in the past that could be blocked by line of sight when it was not intended even if people have been using the mechanic for a significant amount of time. I remember how Velks was changed partway through the expansion to remove line of sight blockers and people where able to adjust and beat the raid.
  13. Windance Augur

    I'm not sure what changes you are talking about on the Velks raid.

    The Bledrek "green aura" IS still blocked by walls. We did the raid about 6 months ago and our strategy to use the walls to hide healers still worked.

    From what I recall, the big change to Velks was making Bledrek leash if you pulled him down the stairs leading towards Velks room.

    BUT ...

    This is more like when they kept tinkering with ToFS1.

    No one is saying they can't figure out a strategy to overcome the changes. Most of us think the raid is already enough of a PITA.
    Metanis likes this.
  14. Cicelee Augur

    Depends on your definition of "fun" I suppose.

    Some people just want easy loot and want to beat the raid once per week. They don't care about mechanics, as long as they win on their first attempt with whomever they are with. To them, that is fun.

    Some people want to be challenged, to work together and overcome obstacles, with a decent to high level of difficulty. To them, that is fun.

    And of course, there are some in-between those two extremes. Point is, "fun" varies between individuals. What does not vary is developer intent and expectation of a raid and how it should be handled. And if guilds are cheesing the event and not doing it the way it was intended, changes are made. And maybe they waited this long because they were working on other priorities, I dunno.
    Nennius and Waring_McMarrin like this.
  15. kizant Augur

    I gave you information based on real data from many full real raids in ROI. The proc nerf only impacted 9 procs that 4 classes get the majority of hits from so you shouldn't have expected tooo much from the change. However, assuming they were going to make lots of small changes like that it made sense. I'm sure enough small changes would add up to a real impact.

    For a typical ROI raid the total reduction looks like it was around 16 hits per second and obviously 100 DoTs / 6 seconds = 16.6 hits per second. So, we have two ways of looking a the same problem that give similar results.

    Hopefully, the increased speed in looking up active buffs cancels out the negatives here so we don't notice lag get worse but you could also argue that leaving the buff limit at 97 to evaluate the significance of this change would make more sense and that improving lag is more important than giving players something like more debuff slots. Especially when 200 will also be hit rather easily and players will soon forget that there was an increase.

    The bigger issue to me is that design decisions in this game are often very unrealistic and difficult/impossible to implement and not simply that the code is old and bad.
    Hobitses, Evilness, Caisy and 2 others like this.
  16. Bahdah Augur

    The screen darkening bug always happened to me when I close client window to desktop or /ex not /camp or clicking the camp button. I don't feel like that was specified but I'm assuming you tried all anyways.
  17. Koryu Professional Roadkill

    Dead raiders don't do their job, like DPS. Getting a rez is fine, I don't mind the XP loss, but you're operating at reduced capacity afterwards. It takes time to get mana/endurance back, and melee are slowed (both by rez and their endurance recovery method). It's not about fear, it's about effectiveness.

    I think the problem with the way that this emote and mechanic was supposed to work, is that it feels similar to the Banner of Sacrifice during the Restless Avatar of War. If you fail to respond correctly, several or a lot of people get punished. If you do respond correctly, you still get punished. 36 seconds is a long time to get silenced and effectively rooted in place, and you had to run >300 feet away so that you don't drop the spell on other people, which takes you outside of healing range. Somebody can be assigned to follow and heal, but they have to do their own DA immunity workaround to avoid the silence and damage, and it doesn't sound like a fun role to be assigned. If a healer isn't assigned, you die and your corpse is nowhere near raid to be rezzed anyway.

    "But Koryu, why would you die when you can just DA yourself with a clicky? Or tough out the DoT with a couple HoTs and spell shielding?" Toughing it out doesn't work because of Moon's Punishment, which I've seen mentioned a few times in thread as not being able to stack with Shackles, but there's nothing in the spelldata for Moon's Punishment or Linked Shadow Shackles to block the effects of the other spell, you do get hit by both. As for the DA, it's a matter of timing. The emote is a 15 second warning. We use a log-writing interval of 1 because it doesn't work in fractions and 0/immediate slows things down too much, so that's -1 second. GINA then speaks the warning, -1 second to announce it, then you mentally process and realize you need to run, I'll give that another -1 second, but it may be more for some. DA clickies have a 2 second cast time, so we're up to -5 seconds. The remaining time is spent on a quick orientation (because this is a mobile event) and then running at least 300 feet from the raid. That direction will be outside the fort, since the intent was that LoS doesn't block the spell, and your Shackles could affect assigned Ward killers or the decal could overlap one of the few remaining safety auras for Moon's Punishment if you tried hiding in a distant corner inside the fort. Running 300 feet in a direct line should take about 5 seconds at a velocity of about 60. You had better hope that when you do stop running outside and start casting the DA clicky that the server registered your stop correctly so that the spell isn't interrupted, or you've wasted that precious 2 second casting time and have to try again. But, assuming you have made no mistakes, responding to this emote takes up at least 10 seconds out of an available 15. I'm guessing people eat into those remaining 5 seconds because of reaction times (this is an older playerbase), orientation (which I didn't assign a duration to), not running in a direct line, and running some extra distance because of concern over how serious failing this emote is.

    For most "get away from the raid" style emotes, we're given 10 seconds. The AE range of those spell effects are usually 100-150 foot range, so you don't have to spend as much time running and you can stay within healing range. Also, those spell effects usually let you run back to the raid, even if they might snare you. Linked Shadow Shackles requires running double the distance of the standard emotes and then doesn't allow you to return to raid until the effect ends.
    Swiss, Qimble, Hobitses and 3 others like this.
  18. Winnowyl Suffering is optional.

    I can buy or have a shaman (even my alt!) make a potion to levi me, cast underwater breathing on myself, etc.

    Unless I'm unaware, there is no player made potion with a DA effect on it. When that enters the game, your argument will have more weight for me.

    Absor specifically *changed* a mechanic of Close the Gate, because **he didn't want people to have to farm old clickies for a raid**. Holding that up as your example probably isn't the best idea.

    We miss you too, MyMaz! <3 <3
    Swiss likes this.
  19. Windance Augur

    Which is "cheesier"?

    Getting out of LOS to block an effect?

    Having overwhelming DPS that lets you ignore the mechanics? ie. intentionally lagging zones so you can blow through the events like Zlandicar, Sontalak, etc.
    Metanis likes this.
  20. Metanis Bad Company

    Anything that reduces the tedium of current raids should be welcomed at this time.