Test Update 11/22/2022 - Patch Notes and Discussions

Discussion in 'Test Update Notes and Bug Roundup' started by EQ Dev, Nov 22, 2022.

  1. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    I just don't see the point to increasing power to match what is considered broken and over powered instead of just fixing what is considered broken and overpowered.
    Skuz likes this.
  2. kizant Augur

    That's what happens when a class is too strong. If it bothers some people then they should speak up more and not allow that to happen in the first place.
    Skuz, Allayna and Waring_McMarrin like this.
  3. Angahran Augur

    I honestly cannot understand how anyone is happy with nerfing any class!
    How about instead, bring the 'weaker' classes up to the same level ?
    We all know the NPCs will get insane power increases so it's not like this would trivialize any current or new content. And who hasn't gone back to an old expansion, say 10+ back, just to get revenge on an old named or slaughter something that, when current, caused pain and suffering ?
    sauron3030 likes this.
  4. Silu Elder

    Did some testing between beta and live and confirmed Sancus' math on the DPS change for necros - all NoS AAs vs all ToL AAs - not a perfect test, but saw ~18% reduction on Pyre (30s DoT) min hit after NoS upgrades compared to live. I saw no evidence of a 41 second max on the Enhanced Decay effect.
  5. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    To put it in much simpler terms - let's say every DPS class has one button, and that button is meant to do exactly 10 damage. And the entire game is tuned around DPS classes doing 10 damage per button click. But at some point one class's button got messed up, and it started doing 20 damage. Should the game developers fix that one class by reverting it back to doing 10 damage per click? Or should they increase every other class's button to 20 damage, and thus need to retune the entire game around button clicks doing 20 damage instead of 10?
    Tucoh, Yinla, minimind and 1 other person like this.
  6. Angahran Augur

    That assumes that the class you want nerfed is actually broken.
    However, looking at the numbers in this thread, what is being asked for is for Class X's damage to be reduced to 5 and then, once they get all new spells, focuses, AAs, etc, their damage would be increased to 8.
    sauron3030 likes this.
  7. Angahran Augur

    In what insane world is an 18% reduction any type of upgrade ?
    sauron3030 likes this.
  8. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Generally when they are nerfing something to reduce the DPS it is because it is doing more DPS then intended and broken.
  9. Gnomeland Augur

    No, but the mistake was allowing them to get that strong in the first place.
    Allayna likes this.
  10. sauron3030 Elder

    It's not that one class is doing 20 damage, it's that one class is doing 10 damage to several targets at once.
  11. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    That is still one class doing more dps then it is supposed to be which is the problem. It doesn't matter if the total dps comes from a single target or multiple targets.
  12. Mossaa Augur

    They would also need to increase the HP and dmg of all mobs in EQ to compensate for that all classes suddenly do 20 damage instead of 10.
  13. Valcron Elder

    I've seen the parses on Necromancer's, and quite frankly it's disgusting. They are blowing away every single other class right now by miles, so yes, this needed to happen.
  14. Flookins New Member

    Merchant = Chialle
    Zone = Shar Vahl, Divided
    Issue = Merchant missing all items
  15. Marton Augur

    Apparently you don't know any mages/druids.
    Silvena and sauron3030 like this.
  16. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    Yep, agreed. That's what "retune the entire game" meant in my post :p
  17. Mossaa Augur

    Nm, we agree :)
  18. ShadowMan Augur

    You know this is nonsense.

    And its not the first time you have implied necromancers hide or mislead to get broken things to the determent of the game. Being a CL now it would be nice if you kept it to facts and not opinion's or belief's. You 100% for a fact know the devs were warned regarding necromancer dot and AA changes before, during and after they happened. It was ignored.

    Great data and not saying dots didn't need a reduction but how this data is shared kinda skews the picture some. By understating the % of dot dps for necromancers and by giving the breakdown for the 9-13 bucket, which is a small portion of necromancer dot dps.

    Weeks of ToL raid parses show dot dps is typically between 83-93% of a necromancers total dps. Not 75-80% with 20-25% of necro dps coming from pets, nukes and procs.

    The majority of necromancer dot dps comes from the 5-8 tick bucket where it was a 21% nerf. This 5-8 bucket accounts for 55-60% of our dot dps. More if you look at multiple target raid settings where some events might have Pyre alone accounting for 40-50% of a necromancers dot dps.

    A more accurate guesstimate on live pre and post patch necromancers will see a 17-20% reduction in dps before any NoS upgrades.

    Nothing was done to reduce almost every raid event being endless multiple targets that drastically favor spell or ranged dps.
    Rizzin likes this.
  19. Sancus Augur

    I chose the 9 to 13 bucket because some other buckets saw less that the 17% DPS decrease, and therefore it provided a useful approximate median (intentionally close to, but a bit less than, the most extreme buckets). If you look at events with heavy multi-DoTting, you'll see closer to (but always at least slightly less than) a 20% reduction in DoT DPS, whereas on single target events like Shei, those longer bins (and the proliferation bin), while still small as a % of overall damage, do lower the average reduction.

    75-80% seems pretty fair based on what I see for RoI's Necros and what I see on my own parses when raiding on my alt.

    I've only raided a necro a bit, but I don't mind posting my own parses. The highest case for DoT DPS is going to be events with heavy multi-DoTting, so here's a Netherbian parse (Combined (41): A netherbian warrior in 839s, 24.81B Damage @29.58M, 1. Tevalik +Pets = 2.39B@2.86M in 835s {G}):


    You can see there, DoT's were 81.1% of my damage at that extreme. Post patch, I would have done roughly 15.86% less DPS here.

    A more balanced event that still has quite a bit of multi-DoTting (Combined (51): Thall Tetoracu Liako in 1385s, 30.90B Damage @22.31M, 1. Tevalik +Pets = 3.24B@2.37M in 1370s {G7}):


    There DoT's were 74.53% of my damage. Post patch, I would have done 13.98% less DPS.

    My Necro is just an alt, so it's missing quite a lot of proc augs that would push proc DPS another few %. It's possible I'm just bad at DoTting, so you're welcome to post comparable parses, but that's what I'm seeing.

    I'm not trying to argue over the merits of the change, but I think I pretty fairly represented what did change. If you want to post more data, you're certainly welcome to.
    MasterMagnus and TsiawdMS like this.
  20. tsiawdroi TittyGOAT

    Tevalik the goat of alt necros!