Test Update 08/13/2019 - Patch Notes and Discussions

Discussion in 'Test Update Notes and Bug Roundup' started by EQ Dev, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. niente Developer

    Internal changes that aren't player facing wont show up in the patch notes, as well as expansion related work. Lots of things get done that are on the path to make EQ a better game. These don't always translate directly into a player-facing patch note.

    I know it can feel like regular servers are ignored if you see consistent changes to older parts of the game, but it simply isn't true. As far as I know, fixing raid lag will be a massive, complex undertaking (not that it isn't important). Problems on regular servers are no less important, but being angry that something was fixed which doesn't affect you doesn't help your case.

    TLP players are EQ players, too, and charming NPCs in old eras became a serious griefing issue. I hope you can empathize with that. I also hope we can find a way to post constructive feedback without being super disrespectful to the hard-working devs on this team (I say this as one who is posting and not working).
  2. I-WANT-IT-NOW Augur

    I am not wasting my time searching for links or going back and forth on points but afk with mercs out when mercs first came to be was absolutely condoned, or at the least something 100% ignored, prior to TLP's. Not afk play via automation, simply the act of a pet class or riposte class standing on a spawn with a merc out for heals or damage.

    Countless hours have been spent trying to make people play nice or to alter old EQ into something it never was at the expense of other things. For many this has reached a crossing point considering some long withstanding things that are big or similar "quality of life" changes that have been requested for longer than the tlp's have existed that would also take 5 minutes and instead remain as is. You can't make people play nice no matter how many changes you make and TLP EQ is as far from old EQ as a live server at this point.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  3. Zanarnar Augur

    If we're being honest, if the dev's agreed with the change, and it really only takes 5 minutes, I'm betting they would have done it. A lot of things non-developers think are easy or quick can be just the opposite. Heck even developers use to dealing with more modern code bases might not realize just how much of pain poking some areas of EQ's code can be. (I don't know first hand either. Just what I've read on the internet so it must be true :p )
  4. Allayna Augur

    Let me attempt to be more PC:

    There have been many issues that have been brought to developer attention that affect raider, grouper, tradeskiller, trader, etc.....on live.

    But these changes wouldn't necessarily trickle to or affect TLP until a certain expansion unlocked.

    We are told that developer time is limited, "not right now", "requires huge overhaul"...So the perception is that it is deemed too time consuming/back burnered while improvements are made to TLP.

    In the last year these are suggestions that have been on these threads:

    An updated raid window
    Improvements to the advanced loot window
    Improvements to housing, to include find item from co-owner
    Debuff limit revamp
    ....dreaded necro dot revamp
    Improvements to bazaar, traders in general, trade satchel sizes etc
    Improvements to the guild tool (cross zone invites, among others)
    Improvements to each and every class, all posted under class discussion
    Improvements to the collection system (easier to see dropped vs ground spawn and collected vs non-collected)
    Tradeskill improvements (combining from owned housing or banker)
    Parcel to housing/from housing
    Improvements/investigation to the cause of recent lag in specific raids
    The return of account to account transfers
    The list goes on and on....

    Obviously, not everything can be accomplished, prioritization is the name of the game of any business model. But we are not an uneducated player base either.

    When patch notes such as these are released, it's hard not to feel slighted...the only changes affecting live....were things broken by previous patches. Thank you dev and player base alike, as always, I appreciate the dialogue.
  5. yepmetoo Abazzagorath


    1) "afk killing grey cons" wasn't "automated gameplay"
    2) yes, it was allowed, in fact, we were specifically told it was allowed (to many of our dismay, since they basically let people 24/7 level up in weak mobs using mercs and kos aggro mobs)

    As to whether tlp rules are responsible, debatable. Hard to parse without a direct comment from someone at daybreak.

    Could have also been hunters, as all the sudden we saw people being suspended for going afk on some mob spawn point to auto aggro and kill to get some ridiculously rare named, as opposed to doing the same for slayer achievements 4 years earlier when they were fine with it.
  6. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    And not a single item on your list is a "5 minute fix" Most of those are a week to months long fixes/changes. Even ones that "seem" easy like "Debuff Limit." The amount of debuffs is actually a contributer to the lag players are also commenting on, so just "spending 5 minutes to increase the number" is NOT the answer.
  7. I-WANT-IT-NOW Augur

    I don't want to attack you guys but if you guys are truly spending 5 minutes to change something thats 5, 10, 15, or 20 years old maybe you guys might want to not do that in the future. And maybe mull it over a few days and or have a few different sets of eyes take a look to consider other angles first. And if that already is happening then its not 5 minutes time as many expect and more a well this is easier to change than that or impacts all TLP verse just one class on live.

    And small things have to be fit around big things so its not a direct one or the other deal but when you see 200 small things happen over 3 years as another is completely ignored because "there just isn't time" one is left scratching their head.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  8. strongbus Augur

    why I will agree with you ngreth that not everything is a easy fast fix. For alot of those things even if they going take a while to do say months or so it be nice to get updates on them when asked ever few weeks. I use the dot revamp as a example. its been what 1 1/2 to 2+ years sense it was started and got as far as just having necro/sk left to do then it just stop with no updates or anything tell us what happening with it or such. There been how many threads started about a few of those things? Even if a thread was poste tacked to the top of say the vet fourms or the class fourms on some stuff with just say once a month updates or such for some stuff would be nice shoot you could even keep them locked so just the dervs can post and it be fine.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  9. Lubianx Augur

    I think the point that Allayna was making is that it's not just this one five minute change but a culmination of multiple patches, especially recently, where similar things are changed mainly due to a few on the TLPs, not all.

    Last patch
    - Accepting a resurrection will now break charm.
    - Call of the Hero will now break charm.
    - Beneficial spells with a dispel component cast by players will no longer land on pets or mercenaries unless the target belongs to you or a member of your group

    Patch before
    NPCs will now remember damage credit when blurred or charmed.
    - When the owner of a charmed pet teleports, charm will break.
    - Translocation spells can no longer be activated or accepted while in combat

    I'm sure these changes took a little longer than 5 minutes and pretty much have to do with a few griefing people on TLPs. Remember these have been around since day one.

    If the "5 minute fix" was done first then there would be little need for quite a few of the above, which some actually affect live in a detrimental way (see translocation spells).

    You guys do a great job for the most part. Sure there are things that I would like changed, but when I see things like the above taking up extra dev time due to a select few, then it starts to irritate me and many on live. I thinks that is more the reason for the negative tone towards TLPs
  10. Piemastaj Augur

    Part of the reason for this is, there is simply no communication with the Developers and the players. So, you take 0 communication on top of numerous patches with a ton of focus on TLP servers and the players who have been buying your expansions year after year and are decade+ players can rightfully get pissed off. Not to mention Live servers are atrociously bad with lag and have their own huge list of problems that do not get fixed. I do realize these things take time, however if you can afford to keep taking 5, 10, 15 mins to fix a TLP problem maybe that time could be used to start on a Live server problem?

    Not to mention, we were essentially told the spell and AA dev are too busy to do their jobs because they were tied up doing other things. So, we are coming up to a new expansion and the last words we actually heard from a developer on that is we do not have time for Spells or AAs.

    With anything, communication is key. The clear lack of it causes people to get pissed off.
  11. Filthy casual Journeyman

    This was well said. The only thing I would add to the "5 minute fix" adding up argument is the amount of time that is detracted from current content fixes because developer time is spent fixing the fix that fixed something on TLP, but broke content on live. The right click DZADD is the most recent example. The collections spawning under world in Skyfire was fixed last year as well, but was broken again recently, and is being fixed this patch.

    Overall, sweeping changes to TLP affect live more than I think the developers want to admit.
    Xeladom likes this.
  12. niente Developer

    I see a lot of changes that are blamed on TLP that do not originate with the intent of TLP servers - for example, the translocate changes, and the DZA bug.
  13. Nennius Curmudgeon

    Thank you for that. I have been playing EQ for almost 19 years and we players don't very often get to hear what the intent and thinking is behind the tweaks to the game. We can infer and guess, but that is inherently untrustworthy and usually incomplete on the whole. It does seem to many of us at times that the TLP folks yell loudest and get the most. Hearing more of the thinking behind changes is both informational and reassuring. To me at least.
  14. Filthy casual Journeyman




    <LOCKED> so cannot quote the first post.



    And the list of separate posts, multiple pages long involving charm gate go on and on.

    TLP's get a knee jerk fix and something breaks on live or goes un-fixed.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare and tyrantula like this.
  15. Cailen Augur

    really? I know of charmable rares in EoK
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  16. Cailen Augur

    How much do you pay for each expac when it unlocks?
  17. Schadenfreude Augur

    Or when changes are made that make no sense and then any feedback is ignored forever.

    - Enchanter - Adjusted the stacking of Night's Endless Terror to better coexist with a number of other abilities.

    Before the April patch, minor stacking issues. Mage pet proc and - I think - some Warrior disc?
    Post April patch, major stacking issues introduced so it no longer plays nice with the otherwise awesome buff for completing Paragon of the Burning Lands.
  18. Mintalie Augur

    Not to mention QOL bugs, such as the mount stat buff being stripped in Fight Fire, and:
    NET *still* stripping the Jann buff even after the alleged "fix."

    Those are just bugs off the top of my head. There are a lot more.
    tyrantula likes this.
  19. kizant Augur

    NET is too strong to stack with everything. That was the fix. It's working good now.
  20. Horyuken Augur

    Is the bug with HoTs and DoTs on death in a zone fixed? I'm sick of returning to bind as a precaution.

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