Test Update 08/12/15

Discussion in 'Test Update Notes and Bug Roundup' started by Hludwolf, Aug 12, 2015.

  1. Slasher Augur


    This is how you think.

    Class A is higher burst dps so Class B should be better in every other area in the game. There is more to this game then dps. Monks bring more to the game then rogues/bers outside of dps so why should they be higher dps ? If monks are higher sustained whats the point of playing a rogue ? You gain nothing that monks don't do better outside of raids and all raids are sustained so why play a rogue ?

    Monks should be competitive, but your argument they should be higher once again is foolish. you want to ignore everything else your class does better and only care about dps. If all you care about is dps play a wizard.
  2. svann Augur

    Hey wizards can root!
  3. Brogett Augur

    I'd want to see it parsed.

    Remember, 66% dmg mod does not equate to 66% more dps. You can think of EQ damage as like the equation for a line: y = ax+b. 'b' is the damage bonus and any other flat +damage components (rogues get a LOT of these with our piercing AAs) while 'a' is the weapon damage (x) multiplier. The various discs typically modify a and not b. So a 66% boost to 'a' won't equate to a 66% boost to the total damage, y.

    Maybe that's overly verbose way to describe it, but simply put don't assume the dps changes in the way you expect it to, parse instead.

    That said, others have already parsed RF+TC / RF+FS for rogues and shown a boost, but that is primarily because they haven't yet modified those AAs to compensate. No idea if it will also work out for terrorpalm.
  4. ~Mills~ Augur


    Granted this is one persons parse but a 30-35% boost to sustained, always on. Next lets see this with a bard. Like I said necro level sustained for some classes with zero ramp up time or tradeoffs for it.

    When do I get my 350-400k or more burst without any ramp up time? When do I get my ramp time removed for my sustained? When do I get an AE ability to do 400-500k dps in some situations? When do I get a old content trivial type dps ability that lets me tack on 50-100k more dps on some mob types?
  5. Brogett Augur

    Like it is currently since TDS launch in a few guilds only. Monks in my guild can do a great job vs the rogues (and I assume berserkers, but we don't have so many high RA zerks). That's primarily because the events take us 2-3x longer than many of the top tier guilds. We're not abnormal though - if anything it's the uber guilds that are the abnormal ones and they're not the ones that things should be tuned around.

    I also disagree with the philosophy. Let's play devils advocate and say monks and berserkers are identical in every way bar burst vs sustained. To be balanced if ber was 50% higher at burn than monk then the monk would be 50% higher at non-burn, provided both styles of events occur with equal frequency and provided no one ever played in groups. Clearly those provisos are both VERY wrong, so any non-disc advantage the monk would have would need to be very slight in order to compensate for the bulk of raids and group play being non-burn oriented.

    The initial assumption was wrong too though - monks and berserkers are not identical in every way except for burst vs sustained. Monks are the tough guys of the melee dps world with both superior mitigation and superior avoidance plus the addition of a regular self heal. That all has to account for something surely? Put simply, they're not as single minded at dps as berserkers are, hence they shouldn't be as good at it either. Simple really.
  6. Zarakii Augur

    smh is test back up yet?
  7. Riou EQResource

    For TDS sure on some parts, other parts where you need a mob dead now the big burns still have a place, with the upcoming campaign, who knows it could go either way?


    Sure, but Berserkers bring ADPS to the table too, so it's not like they are DPS and only DPS if you want to go down that route. Monks mitigation is barely better, and avoidance is basically canceled with how high mob strikethrough is on raids, the only boost here is in having like 4x the defensive oriented Discs that can be used. Which one deserves a bigger hit to their DPS due to these side benefits?
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare and ~Mills~ like this.
  8. Slasher Augur



    You really trying to say Monk mitigation is the same as rogues/zerkers ? Also Berserker ADPS is a myth we used to bring it to the table but now everything others have is better.

    I'm not saying rogues/zerkers should be way ahead. I'm saying monks should be competitive a good monk should be able to beat an avg rog/ber. If that makes sense.
    Brogett likes this.
  9. Zarakii Augur


    when these changes go through the group aspect wont matter things will die stupid fast anyways and i can assure you a monks mitigation does not mean anything in raid settings and a mend could save my life but chances are if im being hit by something my mitigation wont do anything at all it then falls on healers to keep not only zerks/rogs alive but monks too. im not sure where you are getting the info that our mitigation is that good in raids but it isnt

    the reason we have mitigation is for pulling and i have not seen a monk pull anything in raids for a long time now
    ~Mills~ likes this.
  10. Riou EQResource

    I edited it after finding the AC chart, it is around 4% better (I found the chart from CotF raid gear using Dzarns mega AC formula post) : https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/ac-breakdown.211691/#post-3099145
    The difference is basically the same as Rogues and Berserkers have over Beastlords

    A good monk beating an avg rogue or berserker isn't competitive at all, if it was competitive it would be equal skill being able to compete vs equal skill and the winner or loser would be determined by who goofed on the fight.
    Agrippa likes this.
  11. mackal Augur

    You will still see a boost if you parse long enough. Over the duration of the disc you may not actually see that much of an increase from before (16 difference for monks isn't all that great, but it is better), but on average it should be higher
  12. Qulas Augur

    Berserker ADPS is a real thing.

    I don't think any monk thinks that monks should outright beat Berserkers or Rogues. However the gap between us is already large. I am waiting anxiously to start testing but the raw data so far only shows that the gap will be widened.

    However once test is back up we can get to actually testing it instead of just conjecture
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  13. Slasher Augur


    Test is up and yes several of them have said monks should be higher sustained in this very thread.

    Berserker ADPS is a myth. War cry does nothing its HHE6 when rogues/monks have HHE25 and bards have HHE7 or higher that last like 5m now. Cry Carnage and aura go parse them the effect is minimal so yes Berserker ADPS while it used to be great is so useless now you would not notice not having it.
  14. Symbius Augur

    Monks should not beat Rogues or Berserker's. Get that out of the way first.

    However, the gap right now with all things being equal is getting fairly large on what is currently Live.

    These changes only seem to be increasing that gap, which is disheartening to say the least.

    I appreciate the desire to bring melee more inline with casters as that gap between them is a freakin canyon at the moment, but more work needs to be done on where Monks will stand after these changes.

    Monks should be at the very least 85-90% of a Rogue/Berserker during Burn/Sustained and it's just barely that close on Live right now prior to these changes.
    Slasher likes this.
  15. Sheex Goodnight, Springton. There will be no encores.

    Never mind, it's just really not worth it.
  16. A-Quad Augur

    This whole "Class X should never out-parse Class Y!!1"sentiment is lame. I'd wager it comes mainly from people who are not in the top tier of parsers for their particular class.

    Newsflash: some players manifest the potential of a class way more than others. Stop trying to force the classes into some definitive hierarchy of damage output.
  17. Zarakii Augur

    please trust me i am not trying to get anything stirred up im just looking for some feedback from zerks who are parsing right now since the innate brutal line stacks with there main burn SS because the short time i test terrorpalm on test added up to about what monks are doing with eye of the storm right now on live >.<
  18. sojero One hit wonder

    Zarakii
    I will be on test later tonight testing with the zerker, if you have specifics you want tested I gladly will test them for you or do them along side so that we can compare. You can post them here or send me a pm.
    Zarakii likes this.
  19. Zarakii Augur


    for sure shoot me a message on the forums with the rough time youll be on and ill jump back on test. thanks man
  20. ~Mills~ Augur

    So a 15-20% boost to burst, which impacts your sustained. AND a 30-50% boost to sustained, depending on your class. The cosmic gap between skilled melee dps paired with skilled adps and average dps paired with average adps just expanded.