Test Update 08/12/15

Discussion in 'Test Update Notes and Bug Roundup' started by Hludwolf, Aug 12, 2015.

  1. Zarakii Augur


    Agreed thank you daybreak for at least looking into the issues all melee have faced in TDS
  2. sojero One hit wonder

  3. dwish Augur

    I disagree with this. Beastlord melee is already a much smaller % of their overall DPS then these other classes that will be affected by this change; Thus, this change is already going to lower their DPS quite a bit compared to all other melee. The 74% seems to be taking this into account so they are not knocked down to 2007-2010 levels when absolutely nobody wanted a beastlord in raids outside of a boxed paragon bot.

    The fury group buff is becoming less and less relevant as well as they seem to be switching from quick burn fights to much longer sustained DPS on raids. Fury lasts 40 seconds and has a 20+ minute cooldown, meaning you can use it once per raid most of the time. This ability does not make/break anyones DPS outside of a very short burn, then I do agree it is absolutely essential to melee DPS. But, how many burn events are in TDS? Yeah, thats what I thought.

    DPS is very important to a beastlord on a raid, just like any other DPS class, and are far from the only class that has utility. They should remain competitive with the lower tier of melee at least, otherwise have fun with those paragon bots on raids as even now the class isn't all that popular.
  4. Apoc Augur

    Beastlords should be in a nice spot atm with melee increases and the 100 % passive crit mod they received also.
  5. Xanathol Augur

    My numbers have bared out the same as Sojero's, where the 66% on sustained looks about on the money but under Visage of Death there is only a 37% gain vs the effects of VoD on live.

    How does it look for Warriors? Does the 66% stack with 2her proficiency (ie. parse with and without it)?
  6. Motherlee Augur

    You still didn't fix the items disappearing off cursors. Fish wine is one thing but I just lost 34 planar goo because I misspelled a name!
  7. Coruth Augur


    I didn't say a Beastlord should be FAR behind other 4 meleeish classes. But I do believe they should be last of the 5 because they offer the most utility and like I said, if you are building an ideal Melee Group you definately reserve a Beast a spot. Same isn't true of Ranger/Monk.

    Rogue/Zerk (Gap) Monk (Small Gap) Ranger (Small Gap) Beast is how I would align it
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  8. Bamkan Augur

    Combine Dredge HA - Kedge Counterblow
    - Water elemental are double spawning, so a total of 12 now spawn, rather than 6.
    This doesn't happen every time. You cannot really fade them off either, as they will keep appearing/disappearing from extended target (they have huge aggro range), and will eventually come to you, i 've had them come to me when i'm in the mine area.
  9. Ruven_BB Augur

    There needs to be a compelling reason for a class to be in a specific group. Shamans, Bards and Beastlords are always included in the top melee groups, with 3 other dps. Druids and Enchanters are always included in the top caster dps groups.

    So the remaining classes have to compete, Rogues, Zerkers, Rangers, Monks on melee, and Wizards, Mages and Necros on caster dps groups.

    If one dps class performs significantly better than others, they will have an advantage on priority for limited slots on a raid. Saying one class has a right to that advantage doesn’t make much sense from a balancing perspective. And when I say balance, it’s a reason to be at the raid, a bard isn’t there for their individual dps, just as we are not parsing shaman dps.

    While this pains me to say this, I’m not sure why rangers haven’t taken a Beastlord role with caster groups with an adps utility, so that in caster dps, you have Druid, Enchanter, and Ranger, then 3 caster dps. Bump rangers range dps, and you free up competition for the melee groups. This provides casters with some spot heals that melee groups get with Beastlords.

    Bump monks dps close to rogues and zerkers, with a group offensive adps ability and frankly it solves melee group set ups.

    Last, mages will need some boost to be in-line with other caster dps, and the world would be a happier place.

    Keep mind, as a ranger, I prefer melee, but I’d sacrifice some to have a reason to be at raids. And all of this is conjecture until testing and parsing can occur with the new power bumps.



    Ruven
  10. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    I hope not, the DPS power bounced back and forth between melee and casters near enough every expansion. So unless they are going to rebalance casters as well as melee it needs to be left alone on TLPs!
    I remember many an argument with both Rashere and Prathum over wizzys lacking in power behind melee.

    Still waiting for the port to Western Wastes we argued about too!
  11. Slasher Augur


    He answered that question already and said they will be on all servers.

    It doesn't matter though the % at 40-50 is so small you wont notice much until the game gets near 70-80.
  12. sojero One hit wonder


    It was already stated all servers would get it, including tlp

  13. Stubar Augur

    The age old argument that a class "should be there" is long dead. There are far to many factors to take into account. Player skill, group/raid configuration, skill level of players in your group, lag spikes, etc.

    Assuming that the devs have the ability to do what you suggest, a skilled beastlord will wreck other classes that have a "small gap" like you suggest.
    A-Quad and Iila like this.
  14. A-Quad Augur

    And even not-so-small gaps. And even skilled rangers. Which is how it should be.

    The day they handicap me to such an extent that I can no longer compete with "pure dps classes" on combined events is the day I [finally] walk away from this game.
  15. Brogett Augur

    Absolutely. I think it's about means and standard deviations.

    A ranger could, say, be on average lower dps than a monk (seems fair - they have far more flexibility), but the randomness of encounters could mean that regardless of skills there will be plenty of times where the ranger comes out top. That is, IMO, how it should be - on average there will be a clear class hierarchy, but they're close enough so that in any inidividual encounter skill counts for a lot and even if you have equally skilled players it's never a foregone conclusion.

    The problem is that it needs a fine balance to achieve this. I believe these new AAs offer much finer control over the mean dps, and so should make it easier to achieve this fine balance.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare and Sancus like this.
  16. Schadenfreude Augur

    It's extremely difficult to balance classes 16 years down the line but that doesn't mean the devs shouldn't keep adjusting things as they see fit whether players agree or not (and they wont). How much DPS do you trade in for utility? Currently Berzerkers are absolutely rock bottom for utility so should they be 10% above Rogues in the pure DPS hierachy as compensation? How much DPS does a Necro trade in for their frankly incredible toolset compared to a Wizard who has pretty much nothing?

    Rangers are fairly flexible due to our Archery skillset. I can sustain close to 100k under disc on the named during Arx 3 while melee classes are left somewhat hanging however the disc in question hasn't been upgraded since CoTF and is linked on a long refresh timer with our only melee DPS disc of any note so once it's down I'm pretty much toast and often revert to playing ghetto healer. Naturally casters totally dominate during this phase (when they've not getting murdered by The Blob). I don't even want to think about how much damage Wizards, Necros and Mages do here.

    Does this mean a Monk should leave me in the dust on more melee friendly [sic] events? What currently tends to happen is assuming comparable skill and aDPS support both Rangers and Monks get destroyed by Beastlords in both burst and overall. How much of this is down to terrible weapon itemization decisions in TDS is open to debate but I really, really hope that errors like this are not repeated in the forthcoming campaigns.

    The devs also have the now infamous "burstained" headache to deal with; how much of that impressive sustained parse was down to the god-like numbers in the first 60 seconds? How much is down to AoE abilities and spells which are insanely powerful in the right conditions?
  17. Brogett Augur

    I realise it's an open ended question and maybe rhetorical too, but just how much more utility do you think rogues have that berserkers don't? Poisons is basically the only thing, and they're rare dropped components so (apart from the dps ones, which obviously ARE factored into dps already) are basically used for special occasions only. Some light fluff group buffage in the form of Thief's Eyes/Visions, but berserker aura + cries etc are comparably minor equivalents. We have a few very short duration mezzes which land on some, but not all mobs - in raiding that is more or less comparable to berserkers having superior stuns which again land on some, but not all mobs. We both have limitations on positioning (ours is continous but relatively light, yours is brief but having a major dps impact - so swings and roundabouts).

    Ie we both have a couple very situational things, but by and large are pure dps.

    Fully agree on beastlord vs ranger though; they're very capable and very versatile, more so than ranger, so ideally it would be ber = rog > monk > ranger > bst, albeit with only a few percent average difference between each class.

    PS. Melee AoE is still plain broken by design frankly, but 1 year on and the thread discussing it was closed as it's clear it's not going to change any time soon. I do dislike it though - we (and much more so berserkers) are now required to AoE to max dps which has complications in most events.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  18. Dropfast Augur

    First off, as some have already pointed out, The new damage mod is not going to equal exactly it's amount in total damage output. Meaning, a 66% mod does not mean your going to do 66% more damage total. Any Veteran of this game should know this already.

    Fact is, no one really knows what this is going to do to their own class, let alone to class balance as a hole. You can speculate all you want and do all the complicated math you like, but really no one knows crap about the true outcome. Their are way to many factors to take into account. Synergy between ADPS, Synergy of your class power-ups/discs, group makeup, your guilds strategy, your own strategy of how to play your class, Dumb luck, and many more factors = No one has a clue.

    So anyone in here whining about how one class is getting more than another or whatever, please shut up until you at least see the outcome. Believe it or not, I'm guessing the Devs did not just pull numbers out their butt for this. Even if the numbers are off some, it's not like they can't change it later to re-balance things. Or they can re-balance things with the Campaign coming up.

    Me personally, I would like to THANK the Devs! I'm just happy as hell knowing I'm getting a power up at all. Not to mention the GENIUS new timer. That needed to happened like 8 years ago but better late than never! Great work Devs, keep it up. How about we all just be happy the Dev's are figuring out how to do stuff that we were told was impossible to do. In just the past few months, their has been more good changes done than in past many years combine. Let's be happy with that. :cool:
    beryon, sojero, Kiillz and 2 others like this.
  19. Kiillz Augur

    [quote="Me personally, I would like to THANK the Devs! I'm just happy as hell knowing I'm getting a power up at all. Not to mention the GENIUS new timer. That needed to happened like 8 years ago but better late than never! Great work Devs, keep it up. How about we all just be happy the Dev's are figuring out how to do stuff that we were told was impossible to do. In just the past few months, their has been more good changes done than in past many years combine. Let's be happy with that. :cool:[/quote]

    THIS.
    Dropfast likes this.
  20. Fenudir Augur


    Or just remove rez effects from the game already. Even without them, there's still the XP loss penalty for dying.