Test Update 07/15/15

Discussion in 'Test Update Notes and Bug Roundup' started by Hludwolf, Jul 15, 2015.

  1. Sancus Augur

    And crit damage mods are 100% less than they should be (First Spire should add a 100% crit damage mod):
    [Wed Jul 15 23:07:35 2015] You begin casting Spear of Molten Shieldstone Rk. II.
    [Wed Jul 15 23:07:37 2015] Sancus hit Test One Hundred Three for 131216 points of non-melee damage.
    [Wed Jul 15 23:07:37 2015] Sancus delivers a critical blast! (131216)
    [Wed Jul 15 23:07:37 2015] You deliver a critical blast! (131216)
    [Wed Jul 15 23:07:37 2015] Test One Hundred Three is impaled by a burning spear.
    [Wed Jul 15 23:10:20 2015] You begin casting First Spire of Elements III.
    [Wed Jul 15 23:10:20 2015] You focus on the first spire of elements.
    [Wed Jul 15 23:10:21 2015] You begin casting Spear of Molten Shieldstone Rk. II.
    [Wed Jul 15 23:10:24 2015] Sancus hit Test One Hundred Three for 131216 points of non-melee damage.
    [Wed Jul 15 23:10:24 2015] Sancus delivers a critical blast! (131216)
    [Wed Jul 15 23:10:24 2015] You deliver a critical blast! (131216)
    [Wed Jul 15 23:10:24 2015] Test One Hundred Three is impaled by a burning spear.

    And I verified Illusions of Grandeur is incorrect as well, though I don't feel like writing it out to prove it.
  2. Piemastaj Augur

    RIP Mages.

    40% crit 24/7 on 2 of our 4 spells we use in a weave. Can already see the millions of DMG lost.

    Looks like Bei got his way.
    Leex and Sancus like this.
  3. Zalamyr Augur

    I feel like these need more explanation.

    What's the purpose to specifically targeting the crit rate on rain spells? I find this a completely bizarre way to make a balance change, if that's all it's supposed to be. Not that I'm even advocating any kind of a nerf, but why not tweak the damage on the specific spells involved. Changing the crit rate across the board to all rains seems strange.

    The change to crit chance and damage also feels like it needs some elaboration as to why. Best case scenario, everything gets implementing correctly and nothing changes except how these abilities show up in a spell parser. Worse case scenario, things don't get implemented correctly and you're left adjusting values and correcting stacking issues. What's the ultimate payoff to this change? Why are we spending dev time on a change who's ultimate best outcome is for nothing to change at all? If there's more of a reason behind it I think it'd be good to elaborate on it.
    Sancus likes this.
  4. Beimeith Lord of the Game

    There is a missing 100% baseline. They are deciding where is the best place to put it back.

    Currently every spell had an extra 100% added to it since it didn't stack, now it stacks they have to change that. They took out the extra 100 from the spells, but they haven't put it back in somewhere else (yet).

    Essentially: If they left all abilities with the +100 built into the spell, and the spells all suddenly stacked on patch day, you would have classes having 1200%+ crit damage mods at once.

    The short version: If you stagger your ability usage (aka do things the same way as on live right now) you will do more total damage. If you hit everything at once, you will do more in the short term, but less total damage.

    I have also updated (my version) of the parser and I've emailed Raidloot to let him know of the change so he can update it officially.

    38603] Illusions of Grandeur
    Classes: ENC/254
    Skill: Melee
    Target: Target Group, MGB: No
    Range: 200', AE Range: 200'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Casting: 0s
    Duration: 2m (20 ticks), Extendable: No, Dispelable: Yes
    2: SPA 273 Base1=10 Base2=0 Max=0 Calc=100 --- Increase Chance to Critical DoT by 10%
    3: SPA 375 Base1=110 Base2=0 Max=0 Calc=100 --- Increase Critical DoT Damage by 110% of Base Damage
    5: SPA 294 Base1=10 Base2=0 Max=0 Calc=100 --- Increase Chance to Critical Nuke by 10%
    6: SPA 170 Base1=150 Base2=0 Max=0 Calc=100 --- Increase Critical Nuke Damage by 150% of Base Damage
    Text: Illusions of Grandeur fill your mind.
    Increases your chance to land critical hits with your direct damage spells by #5 percent and with your damage over time spells by #2 percent. Increases the damage dealt by critical direct damage spells by #6 percent and by critical damage over time spells by #3 percent.
  5. Riou EQResource

    Using Default UI like none of this stuff mentioned exists on Test
  6. Sancus Augur

    Cause making crit damage mods for nukes stack is an incredible idea considering the current state of balance :rolleyes:
  7. Beimeith Lord of the Game

    Crit chance and crit damage were split because it caused a stacking nightmare to have 2 different effects on the same SPA. Stacking was calculated on crit chance, so a spell with 1% crit chance and 0 crit damage would block a spell with 0 crit chance and 1% crit damage despite the fact they do different things. Now both spells will stack.

    It feed up at least FOUR spell slots to add new crit damage spells in the future.



    Making crit mods stack wasn't the reason for the change, that was just a side benefit. The main reason was to prevent stacking issues between crit chance and crit damage spells because they shared an SPA.
  8. Apoc Augur

    Well atleast in one swoop when people barely have a reason to log in because lack of raids it was a good idea to nerf mages wizards enc beast rangers and druids? The buffs were fine the way they were they had already fixed fierce eye for casters.
    Motherlee, Spellfire and Sancus like this.
  9. Xikteny Augur

    Regardless of the initial implementations of any of this, looks like some potentially nice changes within this patch.

    I'm happy to see things like clear stacking conflict messages, spell stacking groups, and the possibility of cleaned-up crit chance stacking weirdness.

    My enchanter is gonna miss Deep Sleep proccing from Stasis, etc though; that was a pretty widely accepted methodology.:(

    I'm trying not to dwell too much on the rain changes. :eek:
    Motherlee likes this.
  10. Khat_Nip Meow

    blah blah blah
  11. Forcallen Augur

    So if I am understanding these changes.

    Mages took a hit to their AE nukes which they currently use but this will be more then offset by nuke overcrit mods now stacking or they can at least swap to previously less desired nukes and gain from the stacking and endless nuke overcrit buffs there are to be had. Not sure if this will net out dps wise or if they will gain.

    Wizards are going to gain more dps period. For the same as above, their base damage spells have been tuned for 15 years around non stacking nuke overcrit but now thats gone since certain people probably blinded them to thinking nukes need to work like dots. This also ignores the fact that there are a zillion nuke overcrit effects that can be chained that created the burstained issue that now can be used for either burst or sustained as needed. Burst event just stack these 12 effects and you can't lose in burst. Sustained event just stagger these 12 effects in this manner and you can't lose sustained or at worst be the second best class.

    All nukers but especially the two above should gain from the proc stacking changes. Because of how nuke procs work with each other now and because they have the best nuke enhancing abilities to boost said procs damage.

    Mob AC is left untouched for melee.

    Adjustments for zerkers left undone.

    Possible adjustments like reduction of adps requirements and/or sustained boosts at the cost of burst for melee after AC changes are reviewed still probably not considered.

    No additional content desperately needed for live.

    Continued updates and dev time spent on TLP.
  12. Goth Augur


    Power Leveling Nerf?
    Motherlee likes this.
  13. Goth Augur


    :)
    ImSorryButIHadTo likes this.
  14. Potawatomi Augur

    Mages get nerfed, no communication whatsoever. Tlp complains, gets multiple responses...
    Ferry-Tunare, Iila and Sancus like this.
  15. Sancus Augur

    I cannot attest to changes that may take place in the future, as the devs made this change with absolutely no communication (though some seem more involved and familiar than the change than I). That said, this is what currently is on test for Magicians:
    · Critical hits on Magician spells previously added 270% of the spells base damage PASSIVELY (on top of the 100% base damage). They now add 301% of the base damage.
    · Magician rains above level 96 now critical hit a maximum of 40% of the time, regardless of the modifiers present. For reference, we are at a 58% crit rate passively, and hit 100% on burns.
    · All Critical Damage Modifying spells have lost 100% of their addition. For example, Magician First Spire of Elements now adds no modifier as opposed to the previous +100%, and Illusions of Grandeur now adds 150% as opposed to the previous +250%. This change disproportionally benefits spells with larger critical damage modifiers.
    · Critical Damage Modifiers now stack additively, where previously the highest effect took precedence.
    For reference, here is a before and after picture of critical damage modifiers:

    Passively:
    Live: 100%+270%=370% Test: 100%+301%=401% Difference: +31%

    Fierce Eye:
    Live: 100%+270%+110%=480% Test: 100%+301%+10%=411% Difference: -69%

    Black Wolf:
    Live: 100%+270%+200%=570% Test: 100%+301%+100%=501% Difference: -69%

    Self Burn (First Spire + Glyph of the Cataclysm):
    Live: 100%+270%+160%=530% Test: 100%+301%+60%=461% Difference: -69%

    Druid Burn (First Spire + Glyph of the Cataclysm + Group Spirit of the Black Wolf):
    Live: 100%+270%+200%=570% Test: 100%+301%+60%+100%=561% Difference: -9%

    Full Burn (First + GotC + GBW + IoG):
    Live: 100%+270%+250%=620% Test: 100%+301%+60%+100%+150%=711% Difference: +91%

    Looking at this, it appears to me that Magicians take a hit in Critical Damage mod in every situation except passively and in a full, Enchanter supported burn. Because Magicians now do not have any self critical damage mods beyond Glyph of the Cataclysm now, we do not benefit from this change. Best case we’re hitting a slightly higher damage mod than before in a rather few situations. However, the hit to most other situations pretty much removes any benefit that this may have outside of a pure burn scenario. On top of that, with rains nerfed our burst DPS will significantly decrease, along with our sustained DPS and anything in between. To achieve a full burst now, btw, we have to stack IoG, GotC, and GBW, where we could previously stagger all three abilities. To me, this looks like a loss as far as the changes to critical damage mods, and a huge loss when considering they just destroyed our two highest DPS spells (and their replacements in our burn weave especially are hugely inferior).

    Now if you’re a class that can stack 285% in spell critical mods (Wiz 2nd + PD + GotC) in addition to 250% from ADPS and a 15% crit focus, you may be happier with the stacking changes. But even for that class (unless their passive critical damage modifier got a significant boost), their sustained DPS will take a large hit.

    Overall, this change makes no sense to me. Mages are getting heavily nerfed, Wizards are getting heavily boosted burn and nerfed sustained. This change just screws everything up even more.
    Ferry-Tunare and Iila like this.
  16. Forcallen Augur

    Wondering if stuff like Chromatic Haze, Mana Charge, etc stack as well.

    If so some classes are going to keep 28K+ base nukes x 1200% Overcrit mod (at times) x their toy focus effect that crits for nukes.


    Also very curious how these proc changes are going to pan out for nukes in regards to what now can proc at the same time. If you are at 100% crit rate and 800% OC mod for nukes and can now proc MR, Druid Aura, 2 weapon procs, possibly 2ndary/range if different, belt proc, self buff/aa procs and various potion procs all at once thats going to be a ton of free damage at times.
  17. Sancus Augur

    Mana Charge adds a 50% crit damage mod now, and yes it does stack. And Chromatic Haze is multiplicative, so it is 375%*Crit_Damage_Mod.

    1200% is an overstatement with the removal of 100% from every mod. Mages will now max out around 360% spell crit damage mod and wizards around 585% on a full burn (with mana charge, which lasts 38 seconds). Previously 250% was the max. That said, outside of the 120 second mark, our overall crit damage mod will be *significantly* lower because we now have to stack everything as opposed to staggering mods.

    At the 120s mark GotC and IoG wear off, and a Mage's spell crit damage mod drops to 100%, and then to 0 at the 4 min mark. Previously 200% could be carried out to the 6 minute mark.
  18. Forcallen Augur


    My 1200% was based off the old effects, haven't seen the new yet. So the new is 360% and 585% activated plus your passive OC correct? And if CH is * does that then mean say 711% OC x 375% for one nuke? If so then my 1200% OC was low, yes I realize its only one nuke but thats a hell of a nuke if its 33K base x 2600% OC + that focusable nuke effect AA a class has.
  19. Savil Lorekeeper

    So the basic solo / group / raid weave all mages have been "balanced" based on for the last few years is going to have 2 of its spells *nerfed* hard core. Doing this will force most mages into single target weaves again, and nobody will use the rains ... *again*. Several mages have tested this already and it cuts our DPS be a great deal.

    Yet another example of just how *out of touch* with the game you guys have become. Wizards already beat *most* mages on fast burns, mages were mostly about sustained DPS, now we will no longer be able to even do that...

    *THANKS SO VERY MUCH* for continuing to improve the game for all of us without so much as a question to any of the mages that actually understand the class. Pets, now Rains, whats next? FC to powerful? Make us only able to summon fire pets? I find it amazing that you guys continue to fall for what amounts to PEER PRESSURE from people that don't even play the class. I'd say its just sad, but honestly I've come to expect "game design" like this as the norm. I'm honestly *shocked* when you guys do something right anymore, or when only 1 patch is needed and 2 more emerg patches are needed to fix all the things your QA team missed. Did I say QA team? I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply you guys actually tested changes...

    Savil
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  20. Sancus Augur

    Chromatic Haze has worked that way since TDS launch. Previously it was 620%*375% on the nuke for a Mage. Now on a max burn it's 711%*375%. And yes, the max crit damage mods are in addition to our passive ones. That said those particular figures can be achieved for 38s every... 3? hours, so I would focus on numbers without Mana Charge (subtract 50%).

    On a burn Mages are going to have to work in a Bolt or a VoA Spear at this point; I'm doubtful you have too much to worry about even on burns (our DPS will decrease noticeably). On sustained it'll go down the tubes.