Test Update 07/11/2023 - Patch Notes and Discussions

Discussion in 'Test Update Notes and Bug Roundup' started by EQ Dev, Jul 10, 2023.

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  1. OpenSource Journeyman

    Wait so this is basically an endorsement of AE PLing and selling? Because this change gives the go ahead for it and encourages it by making it far easier now.

    Makes no sense when they could have stopped groups from taking over entire zone picks with a simple 60 second cooldown timer on /yell.

    If DPG is going to allow 6-12 people to take over a entire pick for AE pulling they are going to need to lower the /pick threshold across the board so normal groups can make new picks and not have to fight these people selling AE PL in mass.
  2. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Is this going to reduce the delay when tabbing in and out of game?
  3. Tucoh Augur

    My brother in Christ, as someone who is currently running a group with three mages, they are the class that has to deal with the least adversity in the last few years, arguably the entire game. You're lucky they threw a nerf to the top-rank Of Many spell instead of following my recommendation of just deleting the last few iterations of the Spear line. To keep with the mortgage metaphor, this nerf is more like the government accidentally zoning your property as a tax-exempt public charity and then correcting it while appraising it at a quarter of its value!

    Agree 100%. Would love to see melee DPS and wizards either get a boost this summer or early next expansion's beta, well ahead of release so they can get the tuning right!
    minimind and code-zero like this.
  4. Windance Augur

    It sucks to be on the receiving side of the class nerf, and can change the dynamic of an encounter where you rely on the pets to distract or tank a raid mob.


    I would rather them 'fix' the issue and do away with all the swarm pets and instead give the classes either a single "swarm pet" or maybe just a dot they CALL "swarm pet", or better yet just a DD nuke.
  5. Sancus Augur

    Entirely deleting the Spear line would've actually reduced our DPS less than this nerf to Of Many did (and to be clear - I'm serious, this is not hyperbole. It just goes to show that the makeup of a class's DPS is fairly nuanced and therefore worthy of discussion, ideally before nerfs come through).
  6. zmosix New Member

    Switching between windowed and full screen modes and resolutions should be more responsive and interactive.

    Since when does windowed mode even work? I havent been able to get full screen mode to keep my current window locations in years
  7. tsiawdroi TittyGOAT

    I did not see nerfing one class/one spell on the road map. I also did not see class balance in general in the last roadmap. I know I have and other's have asked and brought up a few things that were tagged: Post-launch NOS. Where I think the swarm reduction in quantity is part of the puzzle to reducing raid lag/unnecessary calculations and am grateful for the speculative fix to post lag win script; it just seems really random to make this change now.Instead of introducing champion's oath, retuning reaver's bargain, changing cool down on mangling, and whatever else was listed post launch- we get a nerf to one class. Meanwhile the pure melee dps classes are so far behind; that in an optimal raid force, the results for their main job, being damage out put has not only stagnated but has fallen behind so much, that most people have main changed or retired. I'm not saying class balance is an easy thing in a game this old, but the standard upgrade to spells/abilities at level increase expansions cannot just be business as usual this next expansion. Whether it's fine-tuning the new spells/ablities with some thought instead of the standard increase, the % increases to aa abilities, reduction in cool down's on discs/abilities, or possibly brand new abilities/discs to help bring class parity through bringing the classes struggling up, instead of nerfing classes to achieve this. I can guarantee you the monk/zerker/rogue isn't happy that they will now be 5% closer to mages on a parse this way. It's kind of crazy that in some cases those classes are looked to more for the adps they are providing instead of the dps they are providing. Hopefully, the hard work is being done now, so that we can get into beta and actually test and with parseable data can then be used to make the final adjustments/tuning.
    Ibadan Kun'Tirel and Ozon like this.
  8. Tucoh Augur

    That's funny.

    Last expansion I added a GINA text trigger to show my chaotic, of many and spear hits in different colors. I've been watching how long it takes to cast spear and how moderate the damage is and wondering how much it really adds to my DPS vs either casting something else or having idle times to reduce the gap between swarm / of many casts.

    I'm guessing with the huge Of Many nerf, it'd balance the classes even more to delete the spear line, so that's still on the table!!!
  9. Ishbu Augur

    I keep thinking about this Of Many change and how a correction to what happened last patch for the early versions of the spell line(mostly just for TLP servers) is now resulting in a nerf for the live game at the top end.

    Im not a coder, but it appears obvious that it is just more realistic for the developers to apply a change to the whole spell line than adjust individual spells from the past. Working on that premise, wouldnt a better option for TLP era corrections be to introduce a new focus tab AA? In this case, it would be a simple AA with ranks at level 80, 85, and 90, that increase the damage of Shock, Jolt, and Clash by X% respectively in order to obtain the same goal as this patch. The line could end there, as the rest of the versions of the spell arent really being shifted much if at all, and thus leave the live version alone.

    I see that as a win win for everyone, but again, I am not a coder.
  10. error Augur

    Honestly, I don't think the change to Barrage is a balance change any more than last update's changes to Shock/Jolt/Clash was a balance change. Considering they went out of their way to scale up swarm pet damage to offset the reduced number of swarm pets being summoned, intentionally nerfing mage dps didn't seem to be on the radar a month ago.
  11. Marton Augur

    Necromancer's Call Skeleton Mass spell is being reduced from 3x pet to 1x pet. Damage output on 1x pet was not scaled up to match previous 3x pet swarm.

    Edit: Before people wonder what I'm talking about, changes to swarm pet spells were not included in patch notes this time.

    Call Skeleton Mass:
    - Slot 1 changed from 'Summon Pet: PCSwmNecS24L120Skel2Char x 3 for 10s' to 'Summon Pet: PCSwmNecS24L120Skel2Char x 1 for 10s'

    Call Skeleton Mass Rk. II:
    - Slot 1 changed from 'Summon Pet: PCSwmNecS24L120Skel2Char x 3 for 12s' to 'Summon Pet: PCSwmNecS24L120Skel2Char x 1 for 12s'

    Call Skeleton Mass Rk. III:
    - Slot 1 changed from 'Summon Pet: PCSwmNecS24L120Skel2Char x 3 for 14s' to 'Summon Pet: PCSwmNecS24L120Skel2Char x 1 for 14s'
  12. Kalamos Augur

    The more I look at the damage reduction to Barrage the more I believe that the damage amount set for it on test is an oversight/mistake. The Mage highest level Spear would do more base damage than a 7+ pet Barrage if this goes through as is. I believe this violates the design intent of the Of Many line, which has been a low pet count penalty and a high pet count bonus to damage as far as I've always thought.

    Specifically looking at the 7+ pets base damage amounts for of Many vs Spear currently on Test/Live for the past 3 level increase expansions ...

    Lvl 110 Spear of Molten Arconite 32,704
    Lvl 107 Volley of Many (Test) 44,153 +35.0%

    Lvl 115 Spear of Molten Komatite 44,150
    Lvl 112 Shockwave of Many (Test) 53,547 +21.3%

    Lvl 120 Spear of Molten Luclinite 73,014
    Lvl 117 Barrage of Many (Test) 67,890 -7.0%

    This can't be right.

    Unless the Spell Dev decided to ad-hoc undo the 65% base spell damage increase to DDs across ALL caster classes in the ToL expansion for this specific spell line, then I believe that the damage set for Barrage on Test is a mistake.
    Ibadan Kun'Tirel and Sancus like this.
  13. kizant Augur

    Were focus AAs changed too or something? With the 90% focus it should still do a good bit more damage than spear and it has a way faster cast time. If it's really doing less damage then it prob is a bug.
  14. Brickhaus Augur

    Of course not, it would spoil the narrative.

    It does bring up the point that when the developers have multiple points of damage tweaks (i.e. for spells, it's the actual spell list damage, the focus line number, any additional add on effects and the type 3 aug add if applicable), it gets really, really hard to dial in a spell to what is actually desired.

    What would be nice is that the spell list damage is the only thing that is truly a variable (add on effects are of course always a wild card). Focus lines should be at the same percentage at max for each spell line at a given expansion cap. Type 3 damage add augs (shouldn't exist) should be a set percentage of the rank 1 spell.

    Multiple points of change means mistakes. It doesn't have to be that way.
  15. kizant Augur

    Oh ok. I did just update my DPS webapp with the latest changes so if people want to compare that way without having to try out Test they can.
  16. Meeko Developer(Code)

    In order to help facilitate testing this fix, the minimum number of players to place a guild banner on Test has been temporarily reduced from 12 to 1.
    Szilent, minimind, Svann2 and 4 others like this.
  17. Kalamos Augur

    Fair. Although I wasn't trying to express a specific narrative other than the possibility that this was an oversight rather than an intentional reduction to Barrage damage. My intent was simply to display the base damage values of the of Many line and how it has scaled with Spear over the past few level increase expacs and demonstrate a break in trend that may not have been intended. Maybe they did decide that ToL DD damage scaling was too much on the of Many line, and maybe it was an error. Only the Dev who made the change knows. Either way, my spell rotation won't change assuming this goes live. Barrage will indeed still outperform Spear with focuses. I'll simply do less overall damage, and that's just fine if that was the intent.
  18. Sancus Augur

    It's not doing less damage, but it is weaker relative to Spear than it was even before the Focus AA existed:

    I get why people get worked up about Of Many given its large effective base damage, but from a game mechanics standpoint it was always an important balance point that has been roughly consistent (around 150% of Spear's effective base) since EoK.

    In TBM, raiding Mages needed help, and that help was partially applied in EoK via a larger-than-normal Focus AA for Of Many, a spell that is uniquely weaker in group content than in raids. This helps to offset the benefits our pets provide in group content that they do not provide in raids, on top of the fact pets just do more DPS in group content due to lower AC values. Raw DPS values aside, it is good for the game's balance for Mages to have a wider gap between group and raid DPS than other classes.

    You could reasonably argue that the focus AA shouldn't have continued to be upgraded at 5% per rank, but Spear's effective base damage has actually scaled more since EoK than (live) Of Many's has. With the nerf on Test, the cumulative scaling of Spear since EoK will be 80% higher (225% vs 145%) than Of Many including the Focus AA.

    The cumulative damage change from this patch isn't earth-shattering, but I think it's pretty fair to criticize the impact on the value of our spells relative to each other given it was achieved solely through a nerf to one line.
  19. Soulbanshee Augur

    Guild window > banner tab:
    Spell damage % needs to be fixed 11-30 > 16-35
    Mana cost % needs to be fixed 11-30 > 6-15
    Spell crit chance % needs to be fixed 5-10 > 5-15
    Pet crit chance is missing the % value > 10
    Capital on "reduces" for base weapon delay
    Value on total max stats needs to be fixed 150 > 500
    Maximum HEM % needs to be fixed 25 > 35
    Health regeneration grammar needs to be fixed, remove up, "regeneration by 30 points per level"
    Mana and endurance regeneration grammar needs to be fixed, remove up, "regeneration by 9 points per level"
    Missing description for "Up to 600 attack power"

    Superior Standard of Power spell description:
    Grammar on pet crit chance string builder needs to be fixed
    Theres no max value on the health regen slot, should read "by 30 points per level" derived from the calc value, also fix grammar
    Theres no max value on the mana and endurance regen slot, should read "by 9 points per level" derived from the calc value, also fix grammar
    Melee haste is up to 36% (Max=136), no idea where its deriving 45% from in the SPA data unless its trying to scale off the calc
    Theres no max value for base weapon damage slot, should read "by 1% per level", also fix grammar

    minimind and Tucoh like this.
  20. Soulbanshee Augur

    A quick question, Ngreth stated level 1 banner was 1-9, is it in fact 1-19, and then every 10 levels being X0-X9 where its basically banner level = leading digit(s) of player level? 20 = 2, 30 = 3....120 = 12? Or is level 1 banner 1-10, and then every 10 levels being X1-X0?

    It looks like getting stats for a level 12 banner (trunc(120 / 10)).
    Base stats and cap +240 (12 * 20) is good
    Resists and cap +60 (12 * 5) is good
    Is max HP before other boosts? (358,333 * 1.35 = 483,749)
    Is max mana before other boosts? (249,756 * 1.35 = 337,170)
    Is max endurance before other boosts? (241,945 * 1.35 = 337,170)
    (Edit: Stripped buffs and took out powersource, effective HP increase was around 21.75%)
    HP regen +360 (12 * 30) is good
    Mana and endurance regen +108 (12 * 9) is good
    Melee haste +36 is good
    ATK +360, no idea how it applies to offence or accuracy calculation but they went up more than standard banner


    I see no reduction in delay when I inspect my equipped weapon without and with the banner effect. I took screenshot outside and inside of the instance to be sure.
    minimind and Tucoh like this.
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