Test Update 03/08/17 - Patch Notes and Discussion

Discussion in 'Test Update Notes and Bug Roundup' started by EQ Dev, Mar 8, 2017.

  1. Rinrigok Journeyman

    You also have to factor in specialization skill which means a Druid will save 11-15% mana.

    The latest change in test has only affected Horde of Aculeid and Chill of the Copsetender so far, so Druids will still have
    Nature's Fiery Wrath - 14259 mana, 15173 nuke + 29035 per tick, 3 ticks
    Argent Moonbeam - 10189 mana, 10770 per tick, 10 ticks
    Consuming Sunray - 9911 mana, 10770 per tick, 10 ticks
    Sunflash - 6664 mana, 11148 per tick, 5 ticks
  2. smash Augur

    Add add to that the dots for beast last 7 ticks instead of 10, mentioned in that 1

    Add to that, that beast got 33% chance for a crit, that doubles the damage

    Druids got around 60-65% for a crit and the crit at rank 25 out of 39 got increases by 318%.

    And to quote a druid from guild, WHO says have crits close to the 1 mil range.. This I cannot prove myself, as I do not have druid that range level myself.
  3. S33k3r Augur

    Using twincast + Destructive Vortex NFW can crit for >800k a tick
    With the correct support it can crit for much higher.
  4. RangerGuy Elder

    I believe part of the reason druids are seeing those massive dot tics are because of chromatic haze and gift of chromatic haze. The change that lets nuke-dots qualify for that 40-375% focus boost that stacks with other focus has some priest dots ticking for millions of damage in a single tick. Just silly.
  5. Ryak Augur

    I don't suppose you could release some numbers for this. I dabble in testing things on the Test server, but it is mostly by myself or with a few other people. I would not be able to convince 40-50 people to come test pick zone opening thresholds, nor is there much purpose to doing so when the numbers must be known internally.
  6. gotwar Augur

  7. Raeff the Druid Journeyman

    I don't understand the antipathy toward druids here. Especially from the BST community, who received exceptional instant cast DoTs with nary a complaint from anyone.

    If you don't like the big tics druids (and all other DoT classes) get from chanter's chromatic haze, then suggest a nerf to chanters. That is not damage that druids can rely on often.

    Are you suggesting that druids shouldn't have strong damage along the lines of NFW? That's what it sounds like. And those reports of million damage tics are FAR exaggerated.

    My druid is geared in EoK group gear, mostly tier 1 but some tier 2. The most I have ever gotten per tic is 567K, and that was with chromatic haze and Destructive vortex running. Of course, DV is on a 10 minute cool down.

    I doubt the posts that mention million+ DoT tics for Druids. More importantly, only the rarest gear and rarest set of circumstance makes that happen. That is FAR outside the normal situation for druids.

    Seems very weird to have a ranger and BST (and supposedly another druid) hammering on druids. I guess I better start posting on the ranger's forum trying to get Head Shot nerfed some more. It does, after all, hit for over 1 million at times, and is not able to be resisted or mitigatable in any way.

    Ridiculous. Druid DoTs should stay as they are - not as proposed on Test. We still be FAR down the dps meters........but we will have moments of glory (which is appropriate for all classes) and will be abel to root/rot a few mobs in some current content before having to take a mana break.

    That is not too much to ask.
  8. Raeff the Druid Journeyman



    Of course, but you're talking about AA's that have significant cool downs AND still only produce that when in very rare circumstances (with only the best gear). Ridiculous to even bring it up. Big deal, every ten minutes with the very best group and gear possible, we can produce very high numbers for 1 minute or so. Well, at the same time, so can every other class.......with FAR fewer restrictions, lesser gear, and lesser group support.

    And, for the record, the above combination has only give me a tic above 500K twice! Even when I got those tics, I wasn't #1 in dps for that mob. And, of course, leading up to that mob, I was far below the dps of the other classes (Yes, 3 second casts and debuffing takes a major toll on dps).

    Class spells and skills should not be geared toward the top 1% on the server. Druid DoTs should stay as they are on LIVE now. It doesn't harm the other classes one whit, and makes druids, FINALLY, someone fun and reasonable to play.
  9. kizant Augur

    I can't say I blame them. Look at all the crying while adjusting the new dot lines from druids/shaman. Class who'd you think would be happy with any sort of upgrade. When they put necro changes in they'll need to be at least 99% of what they intended from the start and it still won't be good enough for some people.
    Sancus likes this.
  10. Sancus Augur

    Can my spells start doing 10x as much damage so I can whine that they maintained the same DPM ratios?
  11. smash Augur

    I don't hammer druids, quoted what you mention about bst dots, about instant and better ratio and such. Is reponding when you slam beast ratio, only pointing out why beast on base might have better ratio also instant.

    When you do mention beast, ensure you got all the facts correct, and not just half of it.
    .
    Beside beast had their nerf in december, i think it was, when the initial damage was reduced by around 70k. Which was a big number of the total damage it could do.
  12. Rolaque Augur

    Not expecting some additional tuning for the druid dots is naïve. We got an increase in dot power that put our dps in the respectable range. When that happened, it should be expected we would be more closely looked at and evaluated. For now, a slight decrease in efficiency is ok by me, I can live with some increase in mana cost. It just means I have to keep paying attention to how much mana I use and make choices as to how to spend. Mana was never supposed to be an unlimited source that you could use from now to the end of eternity.
    Sindaiann, IblisTheMage and Sancus like this.
  13. RangerGuy Elder


    This is exactly why they should have started with necromancers. They would have figured out what was what and then every other class would have been easy. Instead he thought he could just wing it for everyone else until eventually getting to necros. And how he winged it for some classes didn't work for others.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  14. RangerGuy Elder


    You tune around whats possible and what can be reproduced regularly. 3, 4 or 5 million damage dot tics are completely normal and repeatable when fully supported. Chromatic Haze and gift of chromatic haze should not work on dots unless they work for all dots.
  15. Raeff the Druid Journeyman



    Sorry bud, but this is complete hogwash. Very few players can get "3,4, or 5 million damage dot tics" as a completely "normal and repeatable" part of their daily play. I have never had a tock over 567K. You are simply trolling now.
  16. Raeff the Druid Journeyman



    Not sure it is entirely naïve when Druids have been so behind for so long. Look, for instance, at how chanters have been improved in the last couple of expansions - from a forgotten class to a very viable class. The addition of much improved nukes and AAs like chromatic haze have made them very attractive. Not to mention the very nice damage mitigation with their runes. These kinds of changes are very possible without upsetting balance at all.

    There simply is no justification for rolling back the recent improvements given Druids. Mana efficieny and dps remain a problem, with these changes. Yes, damage has been improved impressively. But it is simply hyperbole to suggest that this is OP when our damage remains far behind other classes.

    People, you have got to keep in mind that it takes 3 seconds to cast the one truly strong DoT AND it is on an 18 second recast timer. And all the talk of million damage tics is misleading in the extreme. Perhaps 1 or 2 players on the server can manage that, and then ONLY every ten minutes, and ONLY when in the best groups. Contrast this with zerker on going dps (and decapitate), mages ability to pet tank virtually everything, and SKs and Warriors who can consistently tank 4 and 5 mobs (recent nerfs haven't really slowed this down). On those toons, this is possible with the same kind of mid-level gear and 16 - 17K AA that I have. And few of these abilities are hampered by significant cool downs.

    I challenge you all to show parse logs that mid-level, mid-geared druids consistently out performing the various dps classes that are complaining here - BSTs, Rangers, etc...

    Not going to happen, and not for across any reasonable length of time.

    Ease up on the Druids, friends, especially since we advocate no nerfs for others. Just want to be modestly competitive.
  17. Raeff the Druid Journeyman


    The answer is "yes, absolutely" if a certain class has been so far outside of mid-rank in terms of dps and in terms of ability to apply that dps and still survive an encounter.

    With DPM ratios staying the same or less, we simply kill one mob faster than previously, or at most, two. Then med for mana for 2 minutes. Down time few other toons have to deal with so often. Our dps across time remains miniscule.

    No other class is faced with this problem - not one.

    Ridiculous. As is your comment.
  18. S33k3r Augur

    They are rolling back improvements on 2 of our DoTs, the other 4 are unchanged, As I said before I can live with that especially after I saw what they did to Shaman in test.

    Regarding million damage ticks,it is possible to generate them with just a Chanter casting Haze.

    In the following log Haze was cast before NFW so when NFW landed 1 haze charge was used by the nuke portion and then the 2nd charge was used by the 1st tick.

    There was no Twincast/ITC/Destructive Vortex/Glyph/Intensity. The Druid is my alt wearing a mix of TBM/EoK group gear only (no powersource) 16.7k AAs (2/3 earned without autogrant). Group make up was 2 druids, sk, enchanter and mage (healer merc)

    /G A dense mudman servitor in 48s, 15812k @329421sdps --- #3 Moonchyld 3150k@65625sdps (80769dps in 39s) [19.92%]

    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:01 2017] You begin casting First Spire of Nature IV.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:01 2017] You begin casting Group Spirit of the Black Wolf VI.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:02 2017] You begin casting Banestrike.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:02 2017] Moonchyld hit a dense mudman servitor for 14500 points of non-melee damage.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:14 2017] You feel strengthened by magic.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:16 2017] You begin casting Sunflash Rk. II.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:17 2017] Moonchyld hit a dense mudman servitor for 26535 points of non-melee damage.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:19 2017] You begin casting Nature's Fiery Wrath Rk. II.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:21 2017] Moonchyld hit a dense mudman servitor for 544774 points of non-melee damage.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:22 2017] You begin casting Fire Storm III.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:22 2017] A dense mudman servitor has taken 96226 damage from your Sunflash Rk. II.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:22 2017] The magic fades.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:22 2017] A dense mudman servitor has taken 1153268 damage from your Nature's Fiery Wrath Rk. II.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:23 2017] Moonchyld hit a dense mudman servitor for 187185 points of non-melee damage.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:24 2017] You begin casting Remote Sunflash Rk. II.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:25 2017] Moonchyld hit a dense mudman servitor for 106626 points of non-melee damage.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:25 2017] Moonchyld hit a dense mudman servitor for 7005 points of non-melee damage.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:28 2017] You begin casting Anabatic Roar Rk. II.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:28 2017] A dense mudman servitor has taken 96824 damage from your Sunflash Rk. II.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:28 2017] A dense mudman servitor has taken 57083 damage from your Nature's Fiery Wrath Rk. II.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:30 2017] Moonchyld hit a dense mudman servitor for 149947 points of non-melee damage.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:30 2017] Moonchyld hit a dense mudman servitor for 18975 points of non-melee damage.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:30 2017] Moonchyld hit a dense mudman servitor for 4212 points of non-melee damage.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:33 2017] You begin casting Winter's Wildflame Rk. II.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:34 2017] A dense mudman servitor has taken 94430 damage from your Sunflash Rk. II.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:34 2017] A dense mudman servitor has taken 56096 damage from your Nature's Fiery Wrath Rk. II.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:35 2017] Moonchyld hit a dense mudman servitor for 47275 points of non-melee damage.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:35 2017] Moonchyld hit a dense mudman servitor for 18975 points of non-melee damage.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:35 2017] Moonchyld hit a dense mudman servitor for 11285 points of non-melee damage.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:35 2017] You twincast Winter's Wildflame Rk. II.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:35 2017] Moonchyld hit a dense mudman servitor for 48308 points of non-melee damage.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:35 2017] Moonchyld hit a dense mudman servitor for 50346 points of non-melee damage.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:35 2017] Moonchyld hit a dense mudman servitor for 1112 points of non-melee damage.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:40 2017] A dense mudman servitor has taken 94430 damage from your Sunflash Rk. II.
    [Sun Mar 05 10:29:40 2017] A dense mudman servitor has taken 264581 damage from your Nature's Fiery Wrath Rk. II.
  19. Raeff the Druid Journeyman


    First off, to be clear, I have a 105 BST that is geared in EoK tier 1 and a few tier 2 items. That toon has 16.2 K AA. I am somewhat skilled though not top 25% by any means - I think that gives me sufficient experience to make some comparisons.

    I'll say it again, I do not want BST's to be nerfed, or any other class. And I advocate for very good new DoTs for necros - they should be significantly better than druid DoTs.

    But you're comment suggesting that the comparison between BST and Druid DoTs is erroneous. First, you say that BSTs were nerfed by 70 K. That is incorrect. See below.

    Furthermore, I did not, nor did I hear of other druids advocating for that nerf. So, don't use your sour grapes to suggest Druids pay for a past injustice to BST toons.

    And, while you are correct that the BST DoTs are shorter in duration to the Druid Dots, that makes NO DIFFERENCE if their Damage to Mana ratio is the same. Recasting 2 tics after you can recast your DoTs won't help us do MORE damage than your cast, just will help us keep the dps comparison between BST and Druid the same. And with the Test changes, Horde becomes LESS efficient than Glistening! Given that Druds have been FAR behind BST in dps, this is a clear injustice.

    Again, leaving the Druid DoTs as they are in LIVE by no means creates unbalance. We will still be behind BST dps (and most other classes in terms of dps), just less so.

    Leave the druid DoTs alone.


    Glistenwing Blood Rk. II Spell History



    12/14/2016 - Slot 1 changed from 'Decrease Current Hit Points by 30032' to 'Decrease Current Hit Points by 14128'
  20. RangerGuy Elder


    Sorry to burst your bubble but any druid with tbm or eok raid gear with a bard and enchanter can do that high. No its not every tic. Any druid with eok group gear and rk 2 spells with a bard and enchanter probably tops out at a 2 million max tic. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't diminish how its done or if its repeatable. My personal complaint is with chromatic haze and gift of chromatic haze working for your nuke-dots. But your continued downplay of your current power is getting laughable. Druids can and do put up dps numbers just like shaman were capable even if its not as high as they were. Its just you guys have been less public about it so far.

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