Test Update 02/10/16

Don't get suckered into arguments with the SK trolls on these forums.

Anyone with an inkling of intelligence understands how lazy and unimaginative these changes are.

These changes will not help the game, whatever the SK's will try to tell us. Anyone with the ability to think logically and has an ounce of rational thought understands this.

One would think in game credentials would matter in developing. God knows we don't need some people helping the devs out.

I am disappointed in all of you. Warrior, Knight, Mage, and Developer alike.

The classes are arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, because everybody refuses to see the others' side. The Developers are saying nothing at all and leaving us guessing. The communications could be there, as Roshen demonstrated with what he called a copy-pasted explanation from an email from Dzarn.

The best part of all this Knight bickering is that getting a direct copy of the Warrior abilities (instead of coming up with something new and different) is STILL not going to address the Shadow Knight's role in a raiding environment. It's a handout for the sake of handout that doesn't give them what they were looking for. Complaints about a lack of raid identity will continue so they can be given further buffs and abilities (on top of Corrupted Hammer of Consternation, Reaver's Bargain, and T`Vyl's Resolve which were also not enough to grant them raid identity). Stay tuned for more DPS, more debuffs, more tanking abilities, and yet more whining.

If you're raid geared in EQ, group content is very easy, for everyone. For a dps, cleric, or tanks class you have more hp, better ac, rank III spells, and better dps weapons. I dont see a way that they could ever balance that, unless some abilities only worked in raid instances.

As an SK i dont want a cut and paste copy of anyone else's abilities. I want something that would be cool just for our class, but i dont think that's ever going to happen again.

Also on current raid content adds are hitting like 29k on some events, and knights are expected to pick up multiple adds(2,3,4, etc). I saw warriors pick up adds and get face planted with 30% more mitigation then i have. Maybe the adds should have never hit that hard in the first place and we wouldnt have had this very long hostile thread, that devs stopped reading as soon as they made the other thread for bugs.

i agree with this thats why u need to compare group players with group players not group players with raid players. or raid players vs group content. the thing is the increases dosent just effect the raid game but totaly screws the group game. knights where not hurting in the group game and yet they recived 30% mitigation boost to bring them up to within a few % of warrior mitigation and still retained the self healing. how can this not be a valid consern

Developers with in game credentials, yes. Players who have been requested by developers for feedback, yes. The rest of us, while free to provide feedback, no.

Mitigation improvements for knights will stand. If they modify the amount, so be it. They have already stated it may change. To believe it will remain as is is foolish. At the end of the day, any improvements is a step in the right direction.

Apparently the developers don't agree.

Except what you are failing to recognize is that not ALL GUILDS have warriors to fill the gaps that are there for raid content. Its exemplary that certain guilds have positioned themselves through their efforts to minimize this issue, but for the foundation of guilds which feed and buttress the end tier guilds, it simply can't continue like it is. The developers recognize this and are starting to make the appropriate changes. People can about tank identity all they want, but the reality is, in the raid environment, the lower and middle tier is collapsing and some of the upper tier are too consumed in nuance to even recognize it.

My feeling is that top tier tank mitigation being something that all tanks have is kinda fine. The problem from my perspective is that warriors don't have anything else, whereas both the knight classes moving up into that tier retain their enormous advantage in converting 'juice' (blue juice not yellow juice, but whatever). Converting to damage, converting to self healing, converting to healing others.

Maybe warriors should let go of the "old ways" and instead of trying to restrict other classes from performing their function, start working on getting their class the upgrades they need to solo/molo.

prehaps u should stop downplaying your self healing and focus more on argueing for balance of the game in ALL content Vtull then trying to lecture others

Except thats not what anyone showed. First the only parses with discs showed 4 or 5 minutes of disc use and then 15 to 16 minutes of standing there doing nothing to water down what the discs actually did against a mob that is tuned around using discs. Second even if a pet takes lower average hits it doesn't matter if the pet is still taking more incoming dps then the player. If a pet takes on average a 5,000 hit and only avoids 20% of incoming hits then the pet takes more dps when compared to a player who might take an average hit of 7,500 per hit but avoids 45% of incoming hits. People are pointing at single data points of complex formulas as if they are the end all be all when really the what you see from the final calculation is what matters. Average DI taken, average hit taken mean jack when the incoming dps for pets is, was and always has been higher than that of relative tanks.

Again you try and mislead.

Knights got a boost, and they're defending that boost in this thread. Understandable.

Necros got annihilated, and we're asking in this thread for at least some of those nerfs to be reverted. Understandable.

The two groups that seem to be at anyone's throat are:

1. Warriors (screeching because knights got a boost instead of the nerf bat)
2. Devs (as perpetrators of the aforementioned necro nerfs, as well as the knight boost)

Of those two groups, only the first seems to be flailing and attacking the rest of us. The devs, as much as I disagree with the direction they've taken with necro dps nerfs, do have game design and programming in their job description. I'm willing to cut them a little slack while this gets sorted out.

I have the same concern Sancus stated earlier. With the dps nerfs, what are we to do about the event dps checks? The lower and mid-tier guilds are the ones that will be dying over this, just as we're the ones dying over inadequate - or erratic - warrior attendance. If adequate raid tanking and adequate dps don't come together soon for those of us in the middle, our raid game is over.

Raid and Group content cannot find balance.

so your solution is ignore 95% of the game is the best idea. great idea buddy

Its okay though. All the raiders in the end tier guilds which the events are balanced around are doing fine so its not an issue we have to worry about.

My solution is to ignore group balance as it applies to abilities which have a foundation within the raid setting. Both classes have plenty of disciplines now which trivialize most group content. I also stated warriors can have all the self healing they want for the group (or raid even) settings. I would imagine most knights really don't give a .

All this time people say necros are the other parent class for SKs, i never saw it before. Now, low dps from dots and no point on a raid, NOW I SEE IT.

Sorry necros, i hope they rethink the nerfs. On the bright side, next expansion, you know what you will be getting for dps, same stuff they just took.

most of the top tier guilds will disagree with you here. the raids are a joke and way to easy and way to easy to beat unless they where bugged and unbeatble. and we firmly belive they where made this way cuz non top tier guild should also be able to beat them. look all overr the forums there not a top tier guild currently that think any raids in current expansion was hard or a real challange. try again freind