Technical question

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Aurastrider, Jul 30, 2018.

  1. Aurastrider Augur


    Actually I created this thread to understand how most of the programs work because I really have zero idea (had zero but am gaining some understanding thanks to a couple of helpful peeps). For instance gameparse and gina make more sense now. If I were to relate them to real life I would say EQ is a sporting event and these are the announcers and play by play guys. Gameparse is only keeping track of stats while Gina is yelling out touchdown, first down, sack and other things a person listening to the game would like to hear. Or at least this is how I am understanding how they function. By getting a grasp of how programs and such function it will help players like myself be able to identify if an addon is more likely than not to violate the rules before we pull the trigger and use it even if our intentions by using such program would not violate the "actions" part of the rules.
  2. Millianna Augur

    Most online games give explicit examples (names of programs) you can use, or request you use their own add-ons. Non of which DBG offers.

    Customer service states that if you are not in complete control of character, you can potentially be banned. So, leaving your bard on melody while boxing, can potentially get you banned.
  3. Ghubuk Augur

    Funny, from one of the 3rd party boxing software site itself;
    quote
    No, not usually. Game publishers avoid approving or endorsing specific multiboxing software, because they don't control the software to make sure it keeps following their rules.
    unquote
  4. Accipiter Old Timer


    LOL, how old a computer do you have? Any modern 4+ core machine can do LOTS and still run EQ easily. In fact, I've never had a lag problem that can be attributed to other processes running on the PC.
    Coagagin likes this.
  5. Millianna Augur


    I am not talking about multi boxing software. Nowhere in my statements have I endorsed using anything besides keyboard and mouse programs (Corsair). I want to know what it means to be afk and I want specific examples. DBG has no rules. It does not matter if you did or not if they want to ban you they will.
  6. Aurastrider Augur

    So back on point can someone explain broadcasting? How exactly does it work in terms of communicating with the client and how does it know to only communicate with say EQ while not sending the keystrokes to another program you have running. I submitted a ticket about its use since there seems to be a lot of debate regarding it but I would still like to understand how it functions.
  7. Millianna Augur

    it's essentially a key logger. someone else can explain it better.
  8. Millianna Augur

    There are other ways around it, but that is outside the scope of this thread.
  9. Dreadmore Augur


    Every application running is associated with its own window. (I'm simplifying a lot, but no big deal, should be enough to get by.) Each of these windows has its own name, or some unique identifier that is being kept track of by the operating system, like Windows 10. This is true even of, say, multiple windows of the same application. Opening two instances of your Google Chrome browser is still seen as two different windows.

    Normally, the operating system is in control of listening to your inputs (keyboard presses, mouse clicks, mouse movements) and where to route them to, sending your input to only one of these at a time. This one is the one that is in focus. As in my earlier example, let's say you have two different browser windows open, and you start typing to go to http://www.youtube.com, but you can only do that to one of those browsers at a time.

    Broadcasters work by intercepting that control the operating system has over listening to the inputs and routing them. The broadcaster also has access to all the applications and their names. So you can set the broadcaster to listen to specific key presses and send them only to specific applications. It doesn't do it all randomly--you have to specify it all (as with anything computer-related. All machines do is exactly what we tell them to do. This is why there are bugs in computer programs--humans are not perfect, not omniscient, and cannot predict every single outcome of every single decision. Think of it like the nefarious, twisted ways a genie makes your wish come true, but ugh, that's another story, I feel lots of pity for programmers :p). That is how it knows where to send the key presses to--you have to explicitly tell it beforehand via some configuration that, for example, only when you press Alt + 3, then send the key 3 to applications A, B, and E. Yep, you don't even have to broadcast the same keys that you actually pressed--but again, you define that in the broadcaster, depending on the broadcaster of course.

    So from A's, B's, and E's perspectives, they don't really know where the key press is coming from. They just know they're being told to execute whatever command is bound to the 3 key. In EQ, it is by default is the third hotkey on your first hotbar; in Notepad, it is simply to write the character "3" to the document; etc.
  10. Aurastrider Augur

    I am going to have to read this a couple times but thank you. So does this actually alter the client? It sounds like it's just communicating with it and providing input set by the user but does it alter the client in any way?
  11. Ghubuk Augur

    I don't think (could be wrong) broadcasting software modifies the client but you want to make sure whatever you are doing with it doesn't give you an unfair advantage not obtainable in game as well. So you need to take into consideration exactly what you are doing with it.
    As per https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...y-cheat-programs.250451/page-32#post-3687182;
    Quote Third party programs that automate play or provide an advantage that is not obtainable in-game are not acceptable to use. Unquote
  12. Dreadmore Augur


    Strictly, no. "Key broadcasting" itself is not a third-party program but is the listening to and sending of user input to multiple applications. It has nothing to do with whether it alters programs or not. To be clear, there may be boxing applications of which key broadcasting is a defining feature and the program also alters the EQ clients somehow, but there may also be applications totally unrelated to PC gaming of which key broadcasting is a defining feature.

    To provide a really crappy analogy, I love dogs, and it is sort of defining of me because I have a pet dog, but it doesn't necessarily mean that I hate cats. The two are unrelated.
  13. segap Augur


    If done on the same computer, Windows typically requires a window have focus to accept keyboard/mouse input. That means a broadcasting utility would need to keep flipping to each window as it passes input to it. This would be visible to the user as the foreground window would keep changing.

    The boxing software that is of least concern for most, puts the EQ client in a container to route it's inputs and video output to get around this when multiple are run on a single computer. This is also how it can create interactive picture in picture views. I have not looked in to how intrusive it is in potentially injecting to EQs memory space (I don't personally use it). It may, or it may not. It definitely alters the run time environment of the client and changes how it interacts with Windows.

    While I do believe this software violates the not altering the client guidelines, I also doubt that DBG would go after its users on non truebox servers. Broadcasting requires active input (even if just to one client) and decisions made by the player. It's likely too widespread at this point to try to nip it unless enough users are finding ways to really abuse it. I see it more as a speed limit type thing. You're not likely to get a ticket for going 60 in a 55, but if you're being reckless, you most definitely will. The rule needs to be in place and people reminded so things don't get progressively out of control and beyond enforcement.
    Ghubuk likes this.
  14. Angahran Augur

    Ok, lets stop dancing around the question here.
    Afaik one popular boxing software comes from a guy named lax.
    It does not modify the client, at most it modifies how Windows talks to the client, so that it can broadcast.
    It does not do any of the warping, automating, listing a mobs loot stuff which certain other software can apparently do (I don't know I've never used it).

    The most useful thing it does is allow you to PRESS A BUTTON and have that button go to multiple EQ sessions.
    By pressing a button you are AT THE KEYBOARD.

    p.s. after a long and pointless 'conversation' with DBG customer support, yes, you CAN get banned for /melody while AFK.
    They said, over and over that ANY action while you are not 100% present at the keyboard and in control of your character can lead to disciplinary action.
    Unfortunately I could not find the quote from the dev saying /melody and the swimming trick were ok.
  15. Wizlard Augur

    Old news, but here is the swimming quote you were looking for, and another old quote on the issue.

    Piestro said:
    I'm not gonna create a list of approved programs, however I will say that common sense is more than enough to tell if you are cheating.
    Parsing - Not cheating
    Item Collectors - Not cheating
    Program that has autofire button (and you are still in the general vicinity of the keyboard) - Not cheating
    Swimming on auto-run into a corner to raise up swimming - Not cheating
    Cheating - not allowed.
    If it's reasonable and not unfair it's not cheating. If it gives you an unfair advantage and allows you to do things that can't be normally done in game it's cheating.

    Piestro said:
    “We don't tend to endorse specific software (who knows what might be added in the next release). Window management software and key replication (although not automation) are both allowed however.”
  16. Smokezz The Bane Crew

    Common sense you say? The thread back then wasn't a whole lot different except Piestro actually answered some questions like what you quoted here.

    They answered pretty similarly this time too. The key being allows you to do things you can't normally do. Even though you can send a keystroke to a background window... it's still pushing a key in that window. Something you can do in game. It's not sending you across the zone. It's not showing you spawns on a map. It's not alerting you to something spawning or any other feature of a certain other program can do.

    The "purists" that want EverQuest to be like 1999... you can argue this until you're blue in the face, but things have changed. You're not on dialup anymore. You're not using a crap 640x480 CRT anymore. You're not peering through a tiny window in the middle of the UI anymore. Maybe talk to Strange and he can take you back there... oh snap, guess not right now.

    If you really think you're going to get banned for /melody... come on. Common sense really needs to be your friend.
    Wizlard likes this.
  17. xcitng Augur

    I think I'm a purist, lol ... i don't use any 3rd party programs, I'm sure there are a lot of ppl playing that don't. Some because they don't even know about them, some because they barely make paying thier monthly all access and cannot afford more, and some that would just rather do it w/o using any kind of crutch to play a game that has already become quite easy compared to what it used to be long ago.
  18. Smokezz The Bane Crew

    Oh, and if you think by making the people that play their own group not use stuff like ISB will make them go OH! Well, hell I'll just go back to one character now and group with random people like it was in 1999 again! You're wrong. For the most part, I play my own group during the day because I can while I work and afk a lot (and yes, the group just stands there doing nothing at all). So you try to force the Truebox type garbage on me, there will just be 6 less paid accounts in the game. I hurt no one, I'm not sure why people care, but they do. But that just seems to be the way the world works these days - the whole SJW mentality.
  19. Thunderkiks Augur

    Then there are some of us that do box a group on multiple computers. I prefer it and it's not hard to hit buttons on several keyboards. So what if my living room looks like a computer store :)
  20. Dreadmore Augur


    This is kind of out of the scope of this thread, but still an interesting question. It almost becomes less of a technical question and more a philosophical one. What's an action? Is it the execution of a command, or is it the continued effects of that command? /melody and autowalk need input to start, but once that input is received, is there an action anymore? You don't have to repeatedly input /melody or autowalk.

    Common sense though? I /melody Song of Sustenance while AFK in the guild lobby overnight so I don't waste my stat food and drinks. I don't /melody AE DD songs while AFK in a zone where people are hunting.

    Anyway, off topic stuff.