TBL : the most stupid and absurd extension

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Merlein, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. jeskola Why no Erudite Female avatar?

    Why put your groupmates through extra stress by insisting on tanking TBL with a character? Take some of this time you are spending on TBL missions and go get some damn AA.
  2. Took2summmit Elder

    Of every TBL mission I've tanked, I've never died (edit sorry I've of course died, but weve never wiped and left without a win). I've beaten 100% of the stuff I've tanked. Including T2 missions. I'm not hindering anyone. I've also gained 1300 AC (inventory visible) and 40k hp by doing tbl stuff. Isnt that helpful for my groups also? Im not forcing anyone to group with me. General asks for a tank, i sign up for the job. Geez group police over here.
  3. Cicelee Augur

    I do think one interesting issue is the definition and balance around a "casual" player. As in, what should the expectation of a "casual" player be?

    I say this in reference to the cleric who was not using Yaulp and continually ran OOM. To me, this should be a basic expectation of what a cleric should do. I would not want a developer to design an expansion around that player because IMHO they are choosing to not do the most basic of things for their class. Conversely I do not want a developer to design around an expansion of my magician, who is fully raid geared and max AA and nearly every clickie and item that you can have, along with near BIS augments for the class.

    There has to be a medium between the two. But what is that medium? And because I feel most players are either above or below that medium, that is where contention comes about from both sides. "This game is too easy" or "This game is too hard" becomes the result, and developers are stuck not making anyone happy...
    Pirlo and snailish like this.
  4. jeskola Why no Erudite Female avatar?

    I would be pissed if I had to carry you through TBL because of your poor AA and gear. You must have a much better personality in-game for your group to carry you like that.
  5. jeskola Why no Erudite Female avatar?

    And here you had me believing you. Trollolol
  6. Took2summmit Elder

    How is a group carrying me when they couldnt do anything without a tank? Groups invite me to tank for them and we get chests. You are the one with a poor attitude.
  7. Took2summmit Elder

    Your quote came AFTER my edit, which means you're the one trollololol thankfully this forum has timestamps of edits.
  8. jeskola Why no Erudite Female avatar?

    Group is probably like "aww , it's that 16k AA EOK guy again. Oh well, it's all we can get at this hour, lets carry his sorry butt through this mission yet again"
    Took2summmit likes this.
  9. jeskola Why no Erudite Female avatar?

    Then you edited after my editing, and viewed my edit and commented that I edited
  10. Tappin Augur

    Can you really assume that the majority of the players that say this expansion is to hard cannot play their own class? I am sure there are a few players that have no idea, but the majority of players I group with that are complaining about the expansion being to hard lack basic AAs/Gear. Shove them in a group with toons that have AA and Gear, there seems to be no problem.

    Many who bought this expansion assumed that they could molo the content just like before, but find a bit more than they can chew. I am assuming the content will get tuned down a bit, but not after the devs got almost a free month of sub fees.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  11. Tucoh Augur

  12. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    What I am finding is that TBL is challenging for different reasons than EoK and RoS were.

    Some of the zone and NPC mechanics employed in TBL are outside the norm - hence the shock and awe many felt when attacking content the way we have in the previous two expansions.

    I felt like a complete failure of a player for the first 15 fails of Cliffs. Then it dawned on me, I needed to conform to the mission in order to win. I had become so used to steamrolling content that I neglected to consider finessing my way through.

    It's still challenging. My box team is still dying with regularity. But figuring out how to apply my strengths vs content has proven I was wrong about TBL. There, I said it.
    Took2summmit likes this.
  13. Ravanta Suffer Augur

    I could not disagree more. First of all, who care that you can't complete the partisans for atratos without doing some quests that take place in other zones?

    Does it really matter? Oh no, you can't get your extra 25 mp/mp until you do a couple things in a different zone? So what?

    The difficulty is absolutely not the issue, the player is. Yes, this is a git good message. I've seen a group of five people who have never been in a raid in their entire life rolling around on red carpets, and when I grouped with one of them, I knew why. They knew what they were doing.

    So many times people complain about mercs not being able to do something, and I say....great! I've actually grouped with a full group of actual people more times in TBL than I ever did in ROS. I'm *glad* that I need to ask a real cleric to do something. I'm *glad* that I need to ask for help from a real tank if I want to kill something I can't solo.

    It's how the game was, and I hope future expansions are even harder. If I wanted to play with lousy players or bots, I'm sure there's a lot of console games to scratch that itch
    Took2summmit likes this.
  14. NeverPayForLag Augur

    lovely arrogancy in a flower of disgress....

    I got my popcorn and my beer...
    need to wait on repop... :cool:
  15. segap Augur

    18k AA isn't too much of a stretch. Lots of AA are useless. That's actually quite a bit for a warrior. Pallys and SKs obviously have many more. If you're a Pally or SK that earns AA slowly, concentrating on defensive AA over offensive and fluff should land you in decent shape. The key is still about pushing the right buttons at the right time. If you think you can just get along with auto attack and clicking some aggro buttons occasionally without rotating your defensive abilities, you will suffer as a tank. The less gear and less AA you have, the smarter you need to play.

    But people have had a full year to get ros gear and AA. A new expansion expecting you spent that last year gearing and getting AA is not asking too much of players. I had many alts maxed out on both within two months (alts that aren't boxed together so play time was split). More casual people playing just one character (or one set of boxes) surely could have done the same in 12 months.
  16. Tatanka Augur

    You're still completely missing the point.

    Forget that Tucoh boxes, and that all 6 of his chars are played by him.

    His point was, 6 group geared chars playing suboptimally can beat the current expac.

    The fact that he boxes has NOTHING to do with the point.
    snailish likes this.
  17. Tappin Augur

    Selling someone an expansion that they cannot consume feels more like a yearly taxation then new content. You cannot press a button at the right time if everything is on cool down. If you’re being PLd by raid characters might as well let that mage pet tank and go deeps.
    NeverPayForLag likes this.
  18. enclee Augur

    This is really the crux of the issue, not everyone will 100% complete an expansion. People will fade in and out throughout the expansion cycle. If, you make it exclusive to the people who 95-100% the previous expansion, it's going to result in a continued limited grouping pool. The next expansion should always have some overlap, it helps boost sales and player retention.

    Also, I saw these arguments in UF and it's usually the virtuous claim that harder content is always better for the game which isn't true. Harder content doesn't always make things more fun, there's a balance to it. Half of the player base is below average skill, so do they deserve no content?

    We get a trickle of content compared to the firehose, 6 month expansion days of yesteryear, these expansions need to accessible enough for people to buy and play. They seemed to have hit the mark with EoK, I'm not sure why they can't follow the same philosophy.
  19. snailish Augur

    I don't think it should be tuned down.

    I am in favor of things like adding new drops to older content (era-flagged for future progression of course) to gear-motivate the more-casual type players to get into the new content. This can even be making better drops from a previous expac more common (i.e., drop more often, drop more places, become a zonewide rather than just on specific named, etc.)

    I do see wisdom in making an "entry level" zone in a new expac that is the place a behind the curve player gets their toes into the new expac water so to speak. This is not a new idea... Natimbi did this for GoD and that was a long time ago.

    I also think this "war" should spread into other planes... it's the perfect excuse to do staggered revamps of a pile of content. Maybe one/some of these needs to be easier. I'd rather see work go into something new than tuning down what they have already created new.
    Pirlo likes this.
  20. Feznik Elder

    There isn't much skill involved in playing EQ already. It has auto attack built in, combat is extremely bland, doesn't require much reactionary measures unlike other game genre's i.e. fps, moba, battle royale type games.

    Skill is different then people paying attention, probably what you meant to say. Because Everquest has almost zero skill requirement imo. There aren't that many decisions you have to make to playing your character once you figure out how to use 90% of your spells, AA's, discs.

    In other genre's like MOBA's especially, that is where the game starts i.e. after you have a basic idea of the game/class, the level of learning curve is extreme. In Everquest there is nothing like that, once you have a basic knowledge of your class, there isn't much "skill" involved.

    This is why you have 30-50 years as the average age range in Everquest vs other genre games. If there was actual "skill" involved the playerbase would be non-existent.

    I would go even further and say the developers don't have much skill either, because all they develop is ramping up mob damage by either physical damage or spell damage. That is not skill involved, that is turning the knob up. The AI doesn't react to different scenarios and isn't smart, I guess you could argue that its because its an old game, but I'd argue this is the "easy" way to create content without putting in any effort as a developer. Turn the knob up and down , copy/paste spells/AA data etc at the same time turn up mob power (physical and spell dmg), BAM you got yourself an expansion!

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