TBL : the most stupid and absurd extension

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Merlein, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. Tucoh Augur

    Would've done it sooner if I didn't have a baby the week before release :D But yeah I did the expansion progression from Friday night to Monday night. I skipped everything I could and just followed the progression quests here:

    We're only talking about 13 quests.

    I also didn't play beta besides checking out the new items and spells from the test vendors.

    I think you bring up a good question, what's the expectation of a casual player? Should a "casual" level 110 player be expected to be fully RoS group geared? Probably not. But I would expect them to play as well as one of my boxed characters that basically just autofollows my tank and blindly mashes three or four buttons.
  2. Took2summmit Elder

    The sad fact is these forums are proving the skill gap in EQ is so incredibly wide it appears to be at a breaking point and I am not sure which direction the game should go. I was doing trial of the three last night and our cleric was burning through her mana so incredibly fast. I asked her if she was keeping yaulp up on herself and her answer was "no, I do not have time to melee". And then I kindly pointed out that yaulp has 179mana per tick, which is more than ench buff, and stacks with ench buff. She started using it and her mana suddenly stayed FM.

    I am getting a strong feeling that most group geared people that are struggling have fundamental issues like the one I just outlined above. In fact, every single group I've been in I've had to point out very minor things like this to help my group members. I'm not so sure content should be geared for casuals that are voluntarily leaving things like 179mana per tick on the table. I dont have all 16 classes memorized yet so unfortunately cant help everyone I group with. Anyone that is complaining about TBL should know their class inside and out and realize theres plenty of pure group geared, sub optimal group makeup making it through all the missions just fine.
    Eryssel, Belexes and Metanis like this.
  3. NeverPayForLag Augur

    Didn't realized it is only Hero (..only... see it as ironic) - thought is is Challenger Achievement. I started progression but didn't dared the missions so far but meanwhile the melees have their TS/T3 weapons. If I would had the EoK ultrarare then this would be a much earlier option for me. But have my issues - need to do "Palace of Ember" again because "Challenge of Contract" disappeared out of any reason - the XPAC is still far from reliable to play.

    It is always the same. Blindly smashes three of four buttons sounds easy but what is behind of that is another thing. I am also "blindy smashing" three buttons and on named 3-5 more but the work has to be done before that and this is the real preparation.

    And yes, Casual means for many a different thing. It translates for me like "player who needs to stop playing in the most annoying circumstances while real life needs you regardless if the ubah monster named is razing the group or not". So if people need to stop playing or making a bigger break of some weeks or months from time to time - this counts for me as "Casual".

    That does not mean that they are playing in a lower intensity or paying less money. :p

    Maybe. But I pointed out that issue that I have the feeling that something is still borked there. I did the Trial of Three so many times that I cannot count. There are cases when there is a "manasucking" effect to the normal stuff which is completely out of row. I had times without any Yaulp which simply worked (with no mana issues on cleric at all, nearly full bar) - and btw it does not stack with every spell so I don't use it always because it is not always necessary. So I would say it has nothing to do with Yaulp, there is another reason for it. If it is a debuff then everything - including Yaulp - can be a life saver. But this mana issue does not give any information into the log files so far...

    Very strange effect...
    I meanwhile assume that a DoT/DD effect is randomly borked server-side and sucks mana instead of making damage but gives the same usual message about damage.
  4. Tappin Augur

    The skill gap is not the issue here. If a 110 mixed with EoK/RoS group gear and 18k AA roll into this expansion, they are going to get steamrolled. No amount of skill is going to make up for the missing gear and AA.

    Making the content easier (if they really do this) is just going to make the content abused by max AA and raid geared players.
    NeverPayForLag likes this.
  5. Took2summmit Elder

    I literally started tbl with exactly what you say, eok/ros 16k aa... confirmed I did not get steamrolled. I did this content as the tank, as well....I really dont want to get into this same argument again but on a separate thread. I can promise you the issue is skill gap. Just look at all the pure group geared people that are completing this stuff just fine.
  6. NeverPayForLag Augur

    With the exclamations and preconditions done in the other hundred-post-thread...
    Again?... come one..:confused:
    Graves likes this.
  7. Took2summmit Elder

    What stacks with what or what the actual issue is wasnt my point. My point was a level 110 cleric had no idea yaulp gave you a mana regeneration buff component, and if you arent using yaulp as a cleric you are doing something wrong (unless you have a buff on that wont let you yaulp yourself). Btw, what blocks yaulp? I keep yaulp up on my paladin 100% of the time and have never seen a stacking issue. Purposely leaving 179m per tick on the table saying because it "isnt needed" would be the same as a dps leaving extra haste on the table saying "we have quite enough dps for this group". All the little things not being done add up to failing on missions. This is called skill gap.

    I'm not claiming to be the best player or to know everything. In fact, I know I could be utilizing my necro much more and am actively looking for someone to help me up my dps. I am positive theres things I'm leaving in the table, I'm just not sure what it even is yet. The paladin I focus on more and feel like I play him as optimally as possible at this point.
  8. Petalonyx Augur

    I have 4 ROS group geared players (mag-mag-dru-pal) and was able to alt tab 4 box many stratos named, fight fire, and have downed about 30 named in Empyr during temp access to get about 2 full T2 visible sets, and several T3 tradeskill pieces.

    Tough as hell, and requires every disc/burn activated to kill named, but it is doable. And now it's getting easier.

    I agree with many of the above posters and lament that the barriers to casual player access are so tall and so immediate within this expansion. If you can't get over the wall, at least occasionally, your choices are few and unpleasant (favors from friends, regear in ROS T1-T2, pay for full conflag, etc.).
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Pirlo like this.
  9. Tappin Augur

    My SK would not stand a chance at 18k AA. He does alright with 30k AA. I call BS on this one.
    Graves likes this.
  10. Took2summmit Elder

    You're not the first one to call me a liar. I obviously have no way to prove what I'm saying without video evidence. But ask yourself, what do I have to gain by lying? I could care less if you believe me or not..but just know it's been done. My pal now has 17k AA and 100% of his passive defensive AAs are completed and most of the additional hp AAs are done. So in this regard there isnt a huge difference between 17k AA and 30k AA. My paladin doesnt do a much dps as a 30k Aa pal would do, but he mitigates just as much damage, which is his job.
  11. Tappin Augur

    You may get away with 18k AA on a caster (not ENC) and some melee dps (if you know what you are doing), but not a tank. If your grouped with a raid gear characters, then maybe you would be able to do trash (assuming enough DPS). The only other scenario would be if you grouped with a bunch of pet classes. If you cycle around agro enough to allow healing to catch up, then it may be doable.

    But these are one offs. I still stand by what I said - The majority trying to do this expansion with mixture of EoK and RoS group gear is going to get steamrolled with 18k AA.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  12. Tappin Augur

    This expansion is small. The Devs had to choose to make the content doable by the majority or doable by maxed AA/Group Gear toons. They choose to make for the latter (the correct choice). If they made doable by the mass from the gate, this expansion wouldn't even last to April.
  13. strongbus Augur

    this exp is no different then underfoot was. In underfoot unless you toon was decked out in raid gear or the exp before hands top end group stuff and knew what you where doing you got your butt kicked for the 1st few months. after while they turned it down.

    Everyone in the game can be split into 2 groups.

    causal and skilled.

    Skilled players are the ones who know their toons. They know what the spells/aas/skills do. and know how to use them to the best of what they can be used for. They are the ones who go for the best gear(group or raid) and get it asap.

    Causal players are the ones who while might know some of what their toons can do don't know everything and don't play the toon to the max of what they can do. While they might know what gear they want they don't go after it asap.

    there is a big difference between the 2 groups. A skilled player can do more with a under geared/aa toon then a causal player can do with a full geared/aa toon. and I don't take into account raid gear cause I know plenty of raiders who are not skilled players and are little more then a warm body in raids.

    there is no way for the dervs to make a exp that is going cater to both. Ether its to hard for causal or to easy for skilled.
    Tolzol likes this.
  14. Desk New Member

    The expansion is overturned, given the lack of groups at this time. UF felt harder, but there were groups to be had without much hassle.

    Anything Tucoh's ISB-optomized team does is immaterial vs a standard group geared box team.

    Watch his videos and me amazed at how often he has to alt-tab between toons to pull off such "amazing" feats.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  15. Tucoh Augur

    I agree with the rest of your post but not this. Literally all that DBG has to do to balance the expansion to give content for casuals and tryhards is to:
    1. Remove progression requirements from zones.
    2. Reduce mob HP / Damage across the board for Stratos, Palace of Wind and Realm of Ash.
    3. Increase mob HP / Damage in Mearatas.

    I'd also love for them to re-use a couple zones from Planes of Power that are a couple notches harder than Mearatas, but that's new content. Maybe a new hardcore heritage zone this year?
  16. strongbus Augur

    What I ment was that no matter what the dervs do one group or the other is going complain. there is nothing the dervs can do that is going make everyone happy.
    Pirlo likes this.
  17. Tucoh Augur

    I think we can all agree to that.
    Pirlo likes this.
  18. Took2summmit Elder

    I was farming the blue con Phoenixs in empyr trying to get some primordials. These things seem to have 60-100% more hp than yellow con mobs in HS and give 40-60% less AAxp per kill. They arent hard in the sense that I'm ever worried I'll die, but this dynamic of super hp and crappy xp sucks for sure. It forces anyone that still needs experience to go to previous expansion which is pretty lame.

    No amount of gearing will make the xp faster in TBL ...adjust mob hp/experience per kill to at least make it equivalent to ROS...please! I know mindless grinding is mindless grinding, but let us do it in the new expansion please. PLEASE.
    Pirlo likes this.
  19. jeskola Why no Erudite Female avatar?

    How long are you going to be at 17k AA? If you have done as much as you claim, shouldn't you be at 18k by now? Also, why are you making it harder on your groupmates by not grinding AA?
  20. Took2summmit Elder

    I was at 16k when tbl came out..and you can see my posts reflect such. Now I'm at 17.5k. Thanks for your concern. I'm grinding 50-100 AA a day which is a fine pace for me (RIP no lesson :(). None of my group members have ever thought I was holding them back.

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