TBL Enchanter ADPS questions.

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Voxynn, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. Voxynn Elder

    Question the first.
    Which ADPS AA / spells do you guys use to max out a grp of wizards in grp or raid content?

    Which Aura's do you guys use for wizard's in grp / raid content, and Why?
  2. Brohg Augur


    To paraphrase:
    Mindslash on cooldown for Synergy
    Dissident Reinforcement on cooldown
    Mindsunder, Strangulate in between for more Gift of Haze procs

    Twincast + Mana Reiterate auras are best long term
    if your group can coordinate all using Improved Twincast AA together, then swapping Twin Aura for Bolstering only for the duration of ITC is a positive move

    Burns are Dissident then ITC+ChromaticHaze, Mindslash, then CalculatedInsanity and go on with your nuke weave. Forceful Rejuvenation to refresh Dissident when it fades. Whether/when to use 3rd spire depends on the rest of your group, but "when Calc fades" is a passable default
    Lannin, RPoo, Drogba and 2 others like this.
  3. Fian Augur

    Personally, I always use Third Spire in my burn. I wouldn't want to short change the group by using self only Calc Insanity instead. Also, I am not sure what ITC is, I have to assume it means Illusions of Grandeur AA somehow, which should also be a part of any burn. On a personal dps side of things, I didn't see your Mind Tempest dot listed.

    I also don't understand this aura swapping. First enc always runs Twincast and Mana Repetition auras. Second enc usually runs Bolstering and another like mana regen. Is there some conflict between bolstering and twincast that I am unaware?
  4. Dovhesi Elder

    You may want to stagger 3rd spire away from burns a little bit to avoid going over 100% crit chance and essentially wasting it.

    ITC is Improved Twincast, Illusions of Grandeur is IoG.

    He probably didn't mention Mind Tempest because the OP asked about ADPS spells and not DPS.

    If you have 2 enchanters in your group then cool, have them both run different auras. He was probably referring to aura swapping when there is only 1 enchanter in the group, in which case you can swap auras during burn from Twincast/MR to Bolstering/MR because everyone in the group should be at 100% twincast chance for about 60 secs or so. Then, at that point you need to swap back to Twincast/MR auras once ITC drops. So, to answer your question, there isn't a "conflict" per say, but if you want to put in the extra effort to maximize ADPS during burn, however annoying it may be, you could swap auras should you be the only enchanter in group.
    Saer-tse-tao, RPoo, Renotaki and 2 others like this.
  5. Brohg Augur

    Yes, thank you everyone for keeping me honest. The linked post (penned by an actual professional enchanter) goes into much further detail and definitely doesn't brain-fart IoG out of the burn sequence. It also doesn't leave out Night's Endless Terror, but it does leave out single target MR, because enchanters are hateful monsters who would only celebrate should we all die of starvation & exposure without good ADPS.
  6. RPoo Augur

    This black sheep stooge uses Calculated insanity when all the other ADPS stuff isn't pushing me over 100% already
    Lannin, Kimbella and Sancus like this.
  7. Dovhesi Elder

    Lannin, Whulfgar and RPoo like this.
  8. Saer-tse-tao Journeyman

    Sorry Brohg, I 100% respect your chanter abilities, but I think you forgot a couple things for the optimal burn. (Or maybe I misread) The aura portion was spot on tho as was synergy and gift usage. I always run Twincast w/Mana Rep unless ITC is going then I swap to MR/Bolster....

    1. Tash mob
    2. Focus Arcanum
    3. Arcane Whisper
    4. Cast Mindsunder
    5. Click Robe
    6. Glyph of Destruction
    7. Cast Dissident
    8. IoG
    9. Chro-Haze
    10. Cast Mindslash
    11. Forceful Rejuv.
    12. Cast Mindslash
    13. Cast Dissident
    And I will stop at that point.... Im probably being to technical here. For that I apologize, this is what happens when I have too much caffeine and no EQ to play!
    Saerza, Enchantress of FV
  9. Sancus Augur

    This order is weird to me, especially from an ADPS perspective. What is the purpose of the Mindsunder cast? Why is IoG used 3 casts into the fight? Why is Chromatic Haze used 3 casts into the fight? I have other concerns with it too, but it's possible I'm misunderstanding the intent behind this cast order.
  10. Saer-tse-tao Journeyman

    I would imagine it makes more sense when I preface it with duo boxing (with a mage) and group content. This is not intended for raid purposes as I didnt think the OP had raiding in mind... Although I could be wrong?
    • Tash before anything to avoid resists and add dmg
    • Mindsunder to proc synergy (For other casters - merc)
    • IoG could be at the top - so could Glyph or a lot of things I suppose. This is just the order I use them in and for me I like to utilize the duration of the IoG to max benefit. Again not a raid strategy *Shrugs
    • Chro-haze before casting Tash or Dissident? This is one aspect I do not follow you on. Two casts are always before using it; Tash for reasons mentioned above, Dissident for max DD potential. Granted Mindsunder does not HAVE to be in there, but it doesnt hurt in my situation.
    • ITC before Chro-haze is great, but not if im trying to line up the max dps of my mage. Its harder for me to synch up mage synergy/enc synergy if the DDs go off at essentially the same time.

    Sancus I have been reading your posts and a fan of yours for a long time. You are definitely as legit as they come so if you have any recommendations/advice I am all ears my friend! As I said though this is based on group content, just me and my mage with a healer merc and sometimes a caster dps merc.
    -Saerza, Enchantress of FV
  11. Saer-tse-tao Journeyman

    Whoops!! Lol I just re read the OP and noticed he did ask about group AND raid... My bad!! Sorry :oops:
  12. Sancus Augur

    No worries, given the context of boxing in group content that makes a lot more sense. I'm also assuming you may not have Synergy maxed? At max rank, Beguiler's Synergy procs off of Mindslash, not Mindsunder.

    One of the difficulties with coordinating ADPS in a group or raid that you're able to control for much more easily in a boxed setting is lining up spells properly with procs. Ideally, Chromatic Haze (the activated AA) and Beguiler's Synergy would focus the highest base damage nuke for the group.

    Depending on the casters in the group there is not a perfect way to do that, but my personal feeling is that using IoG/Chromatic Haze a couple seconds preceding the fight (assuming a raid encounter or a named; this won't work if you're continuously grinding) is the most consistent method for coordinating it. Dissident can also be used just before a fight. Tashing to help with resists is probably a good idea, but at least in a raid I'm inclined to think there are enough other debuffs that it isn't a necessity that it be the first cast on a boss.

    Therefore, the optimal cast order in my mind would be something like Dissident -> IoG + CH -> (fight starts) -> Mindslash. Using FR to refresh Mindslash and Dissident is also a good idea, although that process doesn't need to be as exact. I understand the aforementioned setup may not be optimal for all classes, but definitely from a Magician perspective (that is, a non-boxed Magician - so I don't also have control of my Enchanter) that's the easiest way I've found. We have a pretty large variation in base damages between our nukes, and Line of Sight spells take a couple seconds to land oftentimes and don't actually consume counters until they do land. Because of that, it's really hard to properly line up "CH will come 5.5s into the fight" or something like that. At the start, RS + Spell TC gives me ~4.5 seconds (more with raid lag) for the Enchanter to finish casting Mindslash.

    There may be other ways to do it; I'd be curious how other groups (especially raid groups, as that's moreso what I'm thinking of, although this does also apply to group burns on named/missions) coordinate these things.
    Saer-tse-tao likes this.
  13. Cragzop Cranky Wizard

    As a raiding wizard, I find it amusing that the OP specifically mentioned wizards … and then in all this great advice, no one actually mentioned wizards...

    The very best thing you can do for adps in a wizard group … is communicate. There are a number of fine answers above, but there all slightly different. Generally speaking I can work with any of the things listed above … but I need to know what you are going to do, when you are doing it, and what other things you may be doing that have nothing to do with producing adps (mezzing, debuffing, punting, etc.). This requires less than a minute of group chat/voice chat before an event or session starts. Get on the same page as your wizards and watch your group dps improve!

    That said, you should be asking what the wizards want and when … cause generally in a wizard group, we out number you … and you are there for us, not the other way around (it's not a reflection on you … it is because wizards are an one trick pony at this point … we offer ZERO except dps to a group/raid). It's not your job to mediate wizards (or even caster discussion). Pick the senior wizard in the group and say, what do you want … and that's what you do.

    I cannot stress how important communication is, especially before and during (as in calling IoG/CH in group chat). You should know all the above stuff - how things fit or don't fit, etc. But running twincast/MR auras, hitting IoG/CH at the time the wizards expect and keeping dissident/dicho and mindslash on cooldown is over 90 percent of the battle … and the rest is fine tuning.

    Also, all this assumes you are the only enchanter in group. Two enchanters generally just mean you hit the second IoG/CH after the first fades … you always have Twin/MR/Bolster auras up … hit dissident when the first effect fades … and don't both hit spire at the first time. Again … communicate key here.

    Pretty much everything above is good, solid advice for what to cast in a group setting. In groups, I would try to use ITC as an enchanter the same time the wizards are to keep them in sync...can also be crude timer if going the bolster aura route during ITC. Frenzied Destruction (one of the wizard's burn aa) and IoG are on the same 12 minute timer … should probably keep in sync.

    CH is actually only a 10 min timer, so if you were fighting for a solid hour … you could get 7 CHs instead of 6 if always casting with IoG. And since there is a built-in 100 percent crit chance on any CH affected spell, it's never wasted if cast alone. But if CH is being used by a wizard claw, cloudburst, or vortex, instead of a braid or skyfire … it's a little disappointing. So if you are going to split your CH from IoG, make sure everyone knows this and that you are announcing your CHs. Honestly, I'd leave them synced … and always cast IoG before CH (it's okay if a nuke is affected by IoG but not CH … it is bad form the other way around).

    Third spire usage in groups can be tricky because of who else is in the group. If you have a druid, you are under Group BW half the time. If you have a ranger, Auspice 2/9ths the time. A wizard using Frenzied Destruction and/or Arcane Destruction is already well over 100 percent crit chance without anything else. And all third does is boost crit chance by 9 percent for 90 seconds. So...in a group...mash when IoG drops the first time, and then keep mashing when up … cause trying to figure out optimal group spire usage isn't the best use of your time. If in a really fast group, could even consider just using second spire … 15k mana is 15k mana.

    In a group, Dissident/Dicho should always be on cooldown - always. Mindslash should be as well for synergies. And as Brohg said, Mindsunder and Strangulate for GoH procs. If you are straight dpsing (as in little other duties), you're going to have a hole in your casting weave ... just make sure whatever you are casting isn't draining your mana too fast.

    In a raid setting, a wizard group is generally going to have you, a druid … and possibly a bard if you are blessed with a plethora of them (melee groups will always get bards over caster groups). Unless you have no magicians, your wizard groups should actually have one as well because we get good stuff from them more than having another one of us. We're really not very sociable ...

    Pre raid helpful tips (which are pretty standard). Start as close as you can to the first engage … most of your stuff has good range so you can cast your starting stuff without interruption, then move in closer (if it's a proximity aggro and not a script start). If there are two enchanters in any group, then one of those gets all the debuff duties so the rest can focus on adps stuff. If not, make it the necro group enchanter … cause they aren't calling for IoG until dots are ticking. And if you are a fast moving raid force (short time between events), make sure to communicate timers for down things before the next event.

    On a burn from the top event, if you are using bolster during ITC you are going to want to start with MR and bolster up (because Twincast Spell/ITC will be in use from the start). But those each need to be running for at least 18 seconds before the wizards (and you and everyone else) get the proc buff. In general, I prefer what Sancus said … get stuff running just before the start of event like auras/IoG/CH/Dissident and that way the wizards can lead with their Braid as maxed as can get. Since the wizards will be twincasting, those dissident counters are going to be gone in no time and you can hit Force Rejuvenation and get in another Dissident and Mindslash ASAP. After that, make sure to switch over to Twincast aura from Bolstering. And keep your rotation going.

    Again like the group, when to use third spire depends on what else is going - especially if Auspice is running. In general, I tell the enchanters to cast it after IoG goes down. At some point, I'm going to lose all my self adps crit chance boosts, and if I'm only using 3 percent of the 9 percent … well that's still zero chance to not have a critical. Definitely can maximize Third Spire usage … but at the end of the day, it's a 9 percent crit chance increase for 90 seconds. I'd much rather have you focusing on Dissident/Mindslash and your own dps than worrying about the absolute best time for Third Spire.

    If events go long, or you are fast moving … I'd generally want things as soon as they are back up. But unless you talk beforehand, don't just assume to use it. Again … communication is the best adps.

    Definitely my point of view, and this thread has demonstrated that several do exist. But as long as you talk to your wizards, should be fine.
    Lannin, RPoo and Tucoh like this.
  14. Tucoh Augur

    This is all pretty basic but I just tried Chromatic Haze for the first time on my new enchanter, holy smokes boys, 340% increased spell damage isn't messing around.

    This makes me wonder if when my 4x mage + enc + dru group reaches its final form it could kill a named mob in a single round of damage spells by popping

    improved twincast + chromatic haze + illusions of grandeur + beguiler's synergy + season's wrath (dru) + conjurer's Synergy (mag)

    and getting them with four volley of many + druid dicho. I don't know what else you can stack there (bolstering aura? I haven't been using it...) that would really move the needle much, but it'd be an impressive start for sure.
  15. Vumad Augur

    I just do whatever Raneern (mage) tells me to.

    If you don't have a Raneern in your group then you are missing out.
  16. PhantasmaRathe Journeyman

    mindsunder has an aa proc for whole group from our synergy focuse aa
  17. Sancus Augur

    Kimbella likes this.
  18. Bederper Journeyman

    should one cast Chaotic Deception/Delusion on the current target for the ‘Chaotic Deception Gift’ proc in the weave also? The next 2 DD being twincast? Seems like a Bifold Focus on an 8sec refresh.

    Am I missing something? because I don’t see it mentioned in any of the Enchanter 101 guides

    thanks in advance,
    RPoo likes this.
  19. Cragzop Cranky Wizard

    Your target has to be mesmerize-able with the spell for the twincast to land. So in raids not as useful since the bosses aren't able to be mezzed (level) or the adds (level or type) or you don't want to be mezzing the adds.

    In group play, you are almost certainly not going to have CD and Deceive on your spell bar (two single target mezz spells). CD is only 36s base while Deceive is 54s … if that is going to matter to you, then there might be issues. Also it only works with enchanter nukes so if you are not normally carrying at least 2 (probably 3) nukes, it may not be that exciting (love those chanter nuke refresh rates!)

    That said, it's definitely worth a look. You can get Deep Sleep and Phantasmic Reflex to fire off casting. Since pets will now re-engage mezz broken mobs automatically with enough aas, your pet group mates won't strangle you (I suspect that's why a lot of folks may have forgotten about this spell … I know I tried it before the pet re-engage and it was just too annoying).

    I think most of the enchanter guides are to help folks get down basics and/or work in pretty much all situations. Using this spell would be in the advanced guide, but if you are ready for that … go for it.
    RPoo likes this.
  20. RPoo Augur

    bifold your dots, dc your nukes /nod
    Bederper and Szilent like this.

Share This Page