Hi everyone, I searched the forums for an answer to my question posted below. I found many similar questions, but nothing quite the same. So, I've gone ahead and started a new thread. Thanks a lot for your help. I'm going to be playing in a progression environment where I'll be playing through all the Everquest expansions and raiding in all of them thoroughly. The gear, aas, and abilities that I have will be locked in era to each expansion that I'm raiding. I'm trying to pick between playing a Warrior, SK, or Paladin for my box crew. I've grouped a lot in EQ, but I haven't raided very much. I understand from reading these forums that SKs are currently not desired much in the top raid environment. I also understand that the class "flavor of the month" changes significantly all the time, and a class that is terrible at raiding now might have been amazing at one point or vice versa. I do not mind playing a class that isn't desired much in raids for a year before they get *fixed*. The information that I'm seeking is oriented towards the log term. I also understand "play what you want/enjoy", but I would really appreciate information. If you think back over the past many years, specifically from the time periods between EQ Velious launch all the way to a few expansions ago, Then what have been the raid roles of the Warrior, SK, and Paladin in all of the different raid content, and how desired have they been in a raiding environment at different expansions over time? I want to know as much as possible, but here are some examples of information that I'd like to know. If you have other info regarding raid tanking, raid roles of tanks, or raid tank desirability then please let me know. For example, the SK sucks at raids now, ok, when was the last expansion that they were desired in raids? I see that on the TLP server they're very good currently. In the graphs over EQ time, where are the spikes and troughs in their desirability? When was the SK's ability to quickly snap aggro from multiple mobs considered very useful in regular raid content? Am I even correct in this assuming this to be what they do best in raids? Paladins, has their role always been to off-tank single target mobs and to snap heal in a raid? When was this actually desired/needed? Realistically, is it not simply more efficient to replace two paladin spots in a raid with another warrior and cleric for another off tank and more heals? Are there time periods when their healing role in a raid in considered useless and they become the least desired of the three tanks (behind SK's superior multiple target snap aggro, for example) Warriors, was there a time period when their extra mitigation in a raid was generally considered worth less than the extra aggro generation of an SK or a Pal, even at a large amount of raid content? If you've read all of that, thanks and good luck
Warriors have always been pretty desireable in raids Paladins stopped sucking after/around Omens of War (after that its varying states of fun, depending on expansion) SK's have never really been fun in raiding. But if you are a good kiter, Solteris can be interesting. If you want to focus your questions a bit more, I think less broad sweeping answers can be given. Also the possible answers your going to get alot of it is going to be subjective, and It looks to me like your looking for a very objective binary answer. I doubt your going to find that, but good luck.
First of all, if your wish is to tank Raid Bosses, then choose warrior. If it's not something "vital" from you, then you can choose bewteen the three tank classes. On raid adds, it's only very recently than warriors were able to meet knight standards, while exceeding them with the proficiency, but we speak of one or two expansions max here. For many expansions, knight aggro will be better than warrior, and most likely they will be the best choice for tanking raid adds. Also, SK has have a lot of utility in many expansions requiring AE aggroing some adds and or kiting them for the whole event. Don't stop by the latest forum threads about SK sucking, they just haven't had some kind of event like this the last expansion,but they are still in a good shape. There is only 1% of the whole guild that min / max their tanks, a well played knight will have no problem to find a guild. I would say then that it's a matter of what you prefer to play.
A war is easier to gear, and easier to play than either of the knights, for most of EQ's history. A large part of that simply has to due with the fact that knights have more buttons to push. As for gear, Wars have to juggle fewer focuses, which has become less of an issue in the past few years, since raid loot has been standardized For most of EQ's history, knights have had better snap aggro, though that has mostly evened out in the past few years. SKs are going to be your go to choice for AE aggro, until the past couple years, when Wars received more viable AE abilities. Pals have healing and curing. If you are a little shy on healers, they can help out there. (And once they get splash, they become a substantial choice for events that need raid-wide curing.) As for mitigation, Wars are the best choice there. For large parts of EQ's raiding history, it hasn't been enough to keep Knights out of a Main Tank roll (though with Wars still being better at it.) but over the last few years, incoming damage has changed enough that knights have been mostly forced out of the role. All that being said, then there is also the perception people have about the tanks. As mentioned, Wars are almost always the best choice for a raid MT. Once they get their snap aggro and solid AE ability set (last few years) they become the best add tank as well, in most situations. This has devalued the SK AE and snap aggro toolset, causing the value of an SK's abilities on raids to go down. Paladins still have their healing / curing niche on those raids where it's useful (a decent amount of them,) and can stun the occasionally stunnable mobs that aren't CC'd by chanters. Generally speaking, a raid likes having a couple paladins, but after that, the simple war mitigation vs knight mitigation renders them less desirable. ALL THAT BEING SAID... A good SK is still better for adds than a mediocre War. A good knight can handle a MT role (until last few years of raids) just fine. Sometimes it's just a case of getting past people's mistaken perceptions about intended roles. But if you are going to be a Tank on raids, Wars are generally the most desired tank, because they are, overall, the class best designed for it. Lastly - A good player can almost always find a spot on a raidforce, regardless of class.
Thanks for taking the time to reply everyone. Your responses were very useful. I think that Jaerlyn's post has added enough information for me to move forward, thanks. I will be rolling a warrior and trying him out first, and I feel much better now knowing the "why" behind my choice.
Raids since day 1 had always preferred if not required Warriors. Hard to imagine raids requiring SKs or PALs after all these years of raiding. We're just hybrids, our parent classes do anything we can, better. More true w current content. If you were a knight hen OoW was out then you know what I'm saying. As already mentioned we are pretty ok off tankers. More details on actual class forums.
Allow me to bring some precision to this thing, which is not accurate. Knight self healing is rocking. We aren't able to solo group content with a wiz merc. We don't have pulling tools like SK with their FD and Pallies with their Lull stuff. Each class has his strengths and weaknesses.
Kind of a side note, but Warriors in their current state can do some serious DPS while in two-handed stance. If you are going to box through the progression than consider the 95% of the time you WONT be raid tanking and will need that extra damage. Others opinions will vary, but currently Warriors are top DPS of the three tank classes. The other two classes bring more utility in the form of heals, pulling, stuns, buffs, etc but if you already have a majority of that in your box party it may be better to specialize and go Warrior.
If you are playing in proper period gear we used to use Paladins for the first to CH's up to POP, instant heal, non-agro, while the warrior built hate. So I think they were always wanted to some extent.
Speaking from my own experience, I have seen more warriors out damage knights lately. It highly depends on skill level though.
It really depends on the expansion raid mechanics in regards to roles and tanking power surround yourself with good healers and one will have fun with any tank class one plays. I always enjoyed raiding with my SK. its not the easiest class to play and if one is not max aa's you ahve to be very judicious about where you emphasize those AA in relation to gear. but Ive always felt class selection has more to do than with just raiding. Grouping, Soloing and grinding are as important to raiding as anything else and you need to have a class that you enjoy playing outside of raiding. One of my own shortcoming as a raiding sk is i was never much of a grinder. Working task and quest and having a general purpose for stuff i was doing always took prominence over what i considered mundane grinding and if i didnt have any of those things i could lag behind in AA and this really can put one at a disadvantage in raiding. so my advice is always play what you like outside of raids and find a niche in raiding. If you want to be front and center take the warrior. if you want to stand off to the side and keep the baddies at bay with your super stuns while healing yourself like some sort of knuckleheaded god .. play a paladin. If you want off tank. slip into the tank rotation, go save a healer.be a bodyguard to your pompous enchanter.. all at the same time.. play an SK
Tornicade i think puts it best. Granted i havent played EQ since OoW but i have seen paladin MTs in raids and SK MTs with warrior OTs ive seen different raid compositions. Im not dreaming of being a knight MT for every raid but if the warriors drop somebody be picking that boss up and even if i only get seconds in the spotlight im taking it lol But in all seriousness. Warriors are ment to MT raid bosses. They offer little to no utility to group content. They soak damage its what they do. Paladins and SKs are prefered alot in groupable content because they bring alot to the table and in group content soaking damage isnt really the be all end all
