Returning player here. I'm trying to decide how to gear my warrior. Threads like this: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/war-group-gear.229489/ Provide a good starting point, but I've seen a collection of arguments for stacking HDex and HAgi in that thread, ingame and other threads on this forum and others. The consensus appears to be to choose one and stick with it, but there doesn't seem to be consensus on which one is superior for tanking group and raid mobs. From https://www.everquest.com/news/imported-eq-enus-50674 - Heroic Agility: Increases endurance pool, endurance regen, and the maximum amount of endurance regen a character can have. Also increases the chance to dodge an attack, grants a bonus to defense skill, and reduces falling damage. - Heroic Dexterity: Increases endurance pool, endurance regen, and the maximum amount of endurance regen a character can have. Also increases damage done by ranged attacks, improves chance to successfully assassinate or headshot, and improves the chance to riposte, block, and parry incoming attacks. From safehouse: http://www.evilgamer.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3508 and http://www.necrotalk.com/showthread.php?t=10392 Heroic Agi - Adds to Dodge, and supposedly Block (not shield block) fire rates and allows for the limit on fall damage before auto death to increase at an unknown rate. The formula on Dodge (and Block if that's true) is +.1% rate per point. The +1 Agi cap increase does very little however. While AC softcaps are determined by AGI, there's a 1/3 return softcap on AGI beginning at 200, and normal AGI itself hardcaps at 305 (235 real). Any increase to agility itself past this point, does absolutely nothing other than to increase your displayed (fake) AC by a rate of 18:1 and your displayed stats. Benefits come in bursts every 25 points. Heroic Dex - The boost is +.1% to Parry and Riposte rates (Block too most likely, but not shield block if agi isn't adding it), also the stat increase actually does something which is just above doing nothing. Your real dex stat is used as the base of determining your critical hit chance. It doesn't add a whole lot of additional dps in the grand scheme of things though, as the base is a very small portion of the overall chance. Each additional +1 normal dex is something on the order of a 0.0000000000023429% higher chance to crit per point. So as I said, it's better than doing nothing like an agility cap increase, but not by much. Benefits come in bursts every 25 points. There seems to also be a threshold that must be met in order for the avoidance from agi or dex to matter. Ex: From: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/ac-vs-heroic-agi-dex.219535/ Folks seem to say that Dex doesn't help parry and only helps riposte by the same amount agi increases dodge. Ex: So what direction should I go? Thanks.
If you are a grouper, or spend a significant amount of your time in EQ in the group game, hDex is by far the superior choice. The raid game like talked about in some of those threads is difficult to suggest, because we simply don't know the values for heroic strike-through and regular strike-through. If for example TBM Raid mobs had like 1500 heroic strike-through or something silly, you would look at the AC benefits of hAgi, the Shield AC benefits of hStr, or just hSta for HP as best options. hAgi would still have a benefit in the group game in this case, but still be weaker of the 2 avoidance choices.
I was an all heroic agility tank up until VoA and I noticed a big difference in my damage spikes since going all Heroic Dex in rof and ever since I also compare parses with other tanks as well as I can within game parse and from the information I can see I have taken one of the smoothest damage lines since that time of all the parses I have compared. Also heroic dex = parry block and riposte so we get 2 avoidance checks , Agil is visible ac (which does not equal much) and dodge. Avoidance > Mitigation > Hp. I have noticed my parry going up ever since rof so I would guess they are missing something. The only time parry was not working was in Rof tier 3 - Cotf Tier 1 (and not even all those raids) So I am not sure where that information about parry came from but even without using flash of anger everytime its up my parry is most def higher than it was in Voa.
Not my spikes in the graphs my spiking hp bar in the game . Sorry I did not mean to say my graph in game parse showed lower di distribution. But I am a visual player always have been I spike a lot less in the game since going heroic dex and that would be partially because I show a higher % of avoided hits via parry /riposte than I used to.
Dzarn posted some AC stuff Step1 = (8000 * (FunctionalAgility-40)) / 36000 Step2 = (HeroicAgility / 10) 'Agility Bonus' = Step1 + Step2 Functional Agi is your capped Agi + hAgi. Every 1 'agility bonus' just as effective as 1 avoidance mod2. Agi also factors into mitigation AC Step17 = If FunctionalAgility > 70: = (FunctionalAgility / 20) hSTR also adds to the "shield AC softcap bonus" Step3 = If equipping shield [AC stat on your shield + (HeroicSTR/10)] https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/ac-vs-acv2.210028/#post-3078126 https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...st-update-06-10-15.223510/page-2#post-3261772 This post explains hwo parry check is done, all other skills follow the same pattern. https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...st-update-06-10-15.223510/page-2#post-3268227 This post explains the rest.
Considering im sick like a dog ill be quick posting my 3 parses I did of Hdex/Hagi/Neutral parse. Parses been done buffless but with all shadowbuffs on,ducked and with same gear dodge/parry focus... The only thing that changes are the augs attribution and charm/arms upgrade. On a vendor in PoLife 975hagi Parse Stats: 975hagi Parse: 100521 seconds Now back to bed to hopefully feels better for sunday's raids!
You had one more tier of dex in the agil parse compared to the dex parse that could be that 1% to be even you have to keep both clusters the exact same or it could cause 1 + % errors in the comparison. But accounting for that the hit % would be almost exactly the same in both parses. Thank you for your work ! So going by that it doesn't matter which one we choose as long as we only pick one of the two instead of being balanced.
Looking at the difference between the 975 heroic dex and 975 heroic agi parses : 975 heroic dex one : + 3,92 riposte, + 2,36 parry, + 1,32 defended 975 heroic agi one : + 4,42 dodge, + 1,78 misses. Someone managed to show that Heroic Agi could have a bit of impact on misses. So, if you exclude the 1,32 defended (which is not impacted by heroic agi / dex), you come indeed with same avoidance in the 2 cases. The % hit remains the same too at 62 % Now to come back to the subject, I'm an Heroic Agi defender here. First of all group wise, it seems that going full heroic Dex or going full Heroic Agi could give you the same avoidance result. This is what these parses show. If we are unsure on the misses importance and it's the "ranger", then heroic dex is prolly the way to go as we are sure it impacts two avoidance skills and only one avoidance skill for heroic agi. But it merits more parses to see if misses percentage is impacted by Heroic agility (so far it's the second parse that confirms it, why I don't know). Raid wise, I think it will depend if you are a knight or a warrior, because you won't have the same job. 1) Knight : main job is to tank adds in raids, and sometimes MT Boss Mob As the avoidance checks are more important on adds and nearly none existent on Boss Mobs, it's possible you will find more use to go fully Heroic Dex over other stats. 2) Warrior : main job is to MT Boss Mob, and when not on the line up tanking raid adds (prolly happens more times to have a war tanking adds than a knight MT Boss). Then Heroic agi could be the stats to go, because if the avoidance result is the same, then going Heroic agi stills adds a small AC benefit there. Followed by heroic sta, and heroic dex, as balancing heroic agi / heroic dex might not be the best way now according to parse results. If you are a heroic dex defender, then you might go heroic sta after and heroic agi last. You could still go to Heroic sta first, because avoidance checks on boss mobs being only each around 1%, it is nothing and then more HP will do it (less chance with big AE spell inc to get a bad round) Just for reference, by curiosity, I wanted to know atm what raid warriors were liking more. I took the top 30 warrior magelo profiles by AC, and the top 30 warrior magelo profiles by HP, taking care to not count 2 times players that appear in the 2 rankings. Top 30 player allow to have players that have yet geared enough new TBM pieces. I used the following formula : if one player has more than 2 type 9 "buyable" augs (resplendent of swiftness for agi for example) at least, it means he favors this heroic stat. I came with 10 heroic agi, 4 heroic dex and 4 heroic sta. Yes, I know that the heroic dex defenders will do less good than heroic agi on AC ranking and less good than heroic sta on HP ranking, but really someone full heroic dex will not fall suddenly as far backwards, because type 9 aug boost all heroic stats. You could argue too that these people choose one camp to do some magelo padding in either ranking, but I don't think it would be the case for all. As it's only the start of the expansion, and not so many warriors have enough TBM pieces (first we use the dropped 40 heroic stats aug before going to type 9) to use enough type 9 resplendent augs, it may change in the next 6 months in the heroic agi / heroic dex / heroic sta distribution.
Even on raids I am seeing about the same Hit % going full dex as our other top warrior going full agil there is no difference. More warriors recently went agility due to the information posted by dzarn before that most warriors were going full dex. From what I gather from this parse and from what I see in game like I said I am now to the point where I believe fully there is no difference in which heroic you pick both give you 2 avoidances if you count the higher miss % chance. Now the last thing we need to figure out here is - Does the hit % go down the same even after this 975 point because we can reach around 1250 in either heroic if we use the right trophies and tribute ? And should we still shoot to have the opposite of what we try to max be at 650 (the highest cluster of the opposite heroic parsed) or should we go stamina after the one hits 975+ and the main one we go for.
hAGI increases your avoidance rate, mitigation ability, and chance to dodge. hDEX increases your chance to parry, block (only skill, so doesn't matter for any tank), and riposte. Now increasing your to parry and riposte on mobs is very nice, but a lot of raid mobs now have heroic strikethrough which make heroic stat bonuses to these abilities less useful. So stacking hAGI for the avoidance and mitigation on a raid boss with heroic strikethrough is probably WAAAYYY better.
Nobody in the hSta camp at all? I like sta because there's no real guess work in it. Is a few% mitigation worth more than 10-15k+ hp?
There's a point where HP doesn't matter all that much. As long as you can live through a bad spike RNG, you have enough hp. Anything else is just fluff. If I can just increase my miss rate by 1 every time I tank a raid boss, you're talking about saving anywhere from 10-50k hp. Couple that with mitigation some damage every single hit and the benefits of mitigation vs raw hp tilt heavily in mitigation's favor.
Here's Goodurden's parse data consolidated: It could be argued that a raid tank gains more out of HAGI if they lost most of their parry/riposte.
To me, what really matters is whether if you get hit or not. Here's an alternative way to look at the data: +375 hDex priority = 100% attempts - (8.11 + 8.57 + 4.39 + 3.0 + 20.04 ) = 55.69% hit rateControl parse = 100% attempts - (3.59 + 5.74 + 5.43 + 4.17 + 19.57) = 61.5% hit rate+409 hAgl priority = 100% attempts - (4.19 + 6.21 + 8.81 + 3.39 - 21.82) = 55.58% hit rateI think the focus on the stated skill boosts of each heroic is slightly misleading, as the order of operations means the scaling isn't equal for all skills.
You're right, ultimately it only matters whether you get hit or not - i.e. the Hit % at the very end is the best value. I do want to correct you on a couple things. In gamparse, the hit rate can't be the sum of each %; each defensive rate is an independent value. So for the +409 HAGI example: Total Attempts: 198437Riposte: 8315/198437 = 4.19%Parry: 11806/(198437 - 8315) = 6.21%Dodge: 15711/(198437 - 8315 - 11806) = 8.81%Block: 5513/(198437 - 8315 - 11806 - 15711) = 3.39%Miss: 34277/(198437 - 8315 - 11806 - 15711 - 5513) = 21.82%Hits: (198437 - 8315 - 11806 - 15711 - 5513 - 34277)/198437 = 61.89% The scaling is equal for all skills Bear with me, I think a thought experiment is a good way to explain - Imagine you are a warrior and a monster tries to hit you. You have several options, but they always happen in the same order - 1. You could riposte, saving yourself from the hit and striking the monster 2. You could parry, using your weapon to deflect the monsters attack 3. You could dodge by jumping out of the way 4. You could use your shield to block 5. If all your defenses fail, the monster may just happen to miss. Let's say you're really good at riposting, you riposte 50% of hits, parry 20%, and dodge 10% of hits. If the monster tries to hit you 100 times, You will riposte 50 hits. Of the remaining 50 hits you will parry 10 (20% of 50), and of those you will dodge 4 (10% of 40), resulting in 36/100 hits. If we swap the skills, so you dodge 50%, parry 10% and riposte 20%, You will riposte 20 hits, parry 8 (10% of 80), and dodge 36 (50% of 72), resulting in 36/100 hits - the hit rate stays the same. Even if the last ability to be checked is hit/miss, it means just as much as the first check (riposte). Adding 1% to any defensive check is equally powerful. Back to the original parses, these are the resulting hit rates: 603 HDEX, 566 AGI = 66.24% 666 HDEX, 982 HAGI = 61.89% 975 HDEX, 638 HAGI = 62.3% The problem with comparing these values is that the high HAGI parse has a little bit of extra HDEX (63) so we get slightly higher riposte/parry as well (about 0.5% each). Another problem is the dodge % is inconsistent. For the 566 HAGI parse we have 5.43% dodges, but in the 638 HAGI parse we have 4.39% dodge. The extra 72 HAGI resulted in a loss of 1% dodge chance, suggesting the parse might not have been long enough. The problem now is that these were 21+ hour parses, and that is a considerable amount of time to spend parsing and get skewed results. Too much for me
No, it's not. Gaining a 1% in ripo rate won't scale as well (in terms of lowering hit rate %) as a 1% gain in other skills. (ie) You need to gain 1.XX% in ripo rate to lower hit rate % the same as a 1% dodge rate gain. The primary cause for the 1%+ dodge delta is the fact it's measuring dodge %'s from 100% of attempts, since more attempts are getting to the dodge step with the lower ripo and parry rates, the % of dodges relative to 100% of attempts is going to be higher. Note the gain in block was even higher. You could filter out any issues with parse duration and gear changes by subtracting ripos and parries from the equation, and measure dodge rate from non-ripoed, non-parried attempts instead of 100% of all attempts.
