Tanking Heroics and Raid Boss Strikethrough

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Gorg00, Jul 15, 2020.

  1. p2aa Augur

    When we say no ADPS, it means no bard also. I have seen bards in RoTE tank groups lol
    Bards are the class that boost the most tank auto attack DPS...

    Anyhow, as a HSta warrior, here is another Griklor parse (No ADPS of any form in the group).
    I managed this time to land a full Mighty Strike disc on Griklor before he escaped in the air.

    /GU Combined: Griklor the Restless in 420s, Warrior 115,8m@(278,2k in 416s).

    Here is my spell log i extracted only DPS discs.

    --- Battle Leap X - 1
    --- Brutal Onslaught - 1
    --- Heroic Blade V - 1
    --- Lightning Breath - 1
    --- Mighty Strike - 1
    --- Necromantic Curse - 3
    --- Rage of Rallos Zek I - 1
    --- Rampage V - 4
    --- Vehement Rage VI - 2
    --- Weapon Affinity - 1

    I used also 2 x Offensive Disc, and one Strikethrough.

    I ended 19th on the parse, as we were not a full raid, this is in line with the spots I usually end, aka low 20th (21st-24th).
    This is matching with Szilent's DPS parses of similar Heroic choice warriors.
  2. Pawtato Augur

    Man, warriors seem pretty OP pumping out almost 300k dps without adps or focusing on offensive stats.
  3. Zaknaffein Augur

    Use Charge, not Mighty ~
  4. Szilent Augur

    he very well may not have the stats (in particular hero dex) for that to work out
  5. p2aa Augur

    That's right.
    With enchanter haste, my crit rate is 75 %.
    With a CoP IV clicky chain in raid, it raises to 84 %.
    With Ranger Auspice of the Hunter max rank (from memory it's this one that is mgbed in raid and max % looks like to be 225 %, correct me if i'm wrong), it raises to 94 %.
    Szilent likes this.
  6. Fooba Elder

    I run 2800 hsta for 42 melee shielding. The secondary stat on hsta type 5s is hagi. The secondary stat on hagi type 5s is hdex/hstr. Seems to be working for me.
  7. Petalonyx Augur

    On a typical TOV mob, how much is the extra 1% melee shielding actually mitigating, on a per hit basis?

    Group geared with Hdex focus, i sit under the 1600 hsta threshold for melee shielding, bit hit it with trophy tribute.
  8. Llayenie New Member

    No Shield Sunder?
  9. Szilent Augur

    Versus monsters with a 10k minimum hit, 1% melee shielding is mitigating 100 per hit. ToV monsters I think are closer to 15k minimum hit, so shielding would be worth ~150, but it's not obvious at a glance what min hit numbers actually are. Every player character & summoned pet already has some amount of melee shielding going on, and some mitigation abilities of real tank classes can chip away at the minimum hit, too. One can have a charmed pet take some hits to see if a clear minimum is presented; it may take Atk debuffing the mob to be tanked, and/or ac buffing the charmed pet, to bend hit distribution to get that clear minimum in a quick test.
  10. p2aa Augur

    Not registered by gameparse, but yeah I spam it everytime it's up in a hotkey alongside Gut Punch and Knee Strike.
  11. The real Sandaormo Augur

    3 ways to get to the final result.
    Do you live.

    Thank your healers regardless of how you get there.
  12. Natal Augur

    For a tank mitigation is better than avoidance in general. You get killed by spike damage, not overall damage. So, anything you can do to remove spikes is going to be better in the long run. I would rather take more damage and no spikes than the other way around.
  13. Bigstomp Augur

    I play both a tank and a healer. I have seen it from both sides. But the above is 100% correct. Damage does not kill tanks. Spikes kill tanks.

    Edit: And the obvious using a 2h and trying to mash your flash ability also kills tanks, but that's not a gear thing.
  14. yepmetoo Abazzagorath


    Mitigation reduces variance in aggregate (round) input by a very small amount until you reach such AC levels that you start affecting the inflection of high DI rounds (DI 72-80 for a quad). It is not currently possible to appreciably affect this on raid mobs and even most current group content via aug choices. There isn't enough difference in AC to matter.

    Avoidance reduces the likelihood of higher round input by a MUCH higher amount because 1 miss >>>> a tiny chance to reduce a DI value by 1.

    The tanking argument has never been about mitigation versus avoidance unless you are comparing disc usage.

    The tanking argument has been about HP versus mitigation (AC). No one has ever argued that mitigation is better than avoidance, that is just patently false and easily refuted.

    Even in the heroics argument for a raid tank, it isn't that shielding is better than various avoidance parameters (dodge, parry, riposte), its that having more hitpoints is better than having more dodge/parry/riposte that *does not function* (hdex/hagi) and the increase in true dodge (from the agility itself, not heroics portion) is so tiny that the HP is much better when you're overhealed).

    If dex/agi worked on raid mobs no one would be stamina because they though 1-2% shielding (which only works on the DB anyway, so its almost nothing) was better than avoiding 4-10% more swings.

    This heroics thing isn't about mitigation, its about having more hitpoints in an environment when you're overhealing and you are more likely to die from damage spikes (once discs are down) because the damage output of mobs is so high and our AC does barely anything to the DI distribution.

    Years past, mobs could spike damage you to death no matter how many HPs you had, and that is why people stacked AC, because you could disproportionately reduce the probability of getting a bad round versus the added HP you had giving you a greater chance to live through the hit to be healed through it.

    But when is the last time you heard someone even mention DI shift? Raid mob stats are pumped up so much it hardly matters until you are way past the expansion now (at which point you've bypassed their heroic strikethrough so your avoidance makes it moot anyway).
  15. p2aa Augur

    You misunderstood what I said. I said "in theory", not what is happening atm.
    10 years ago or so when you were reading AA guides for tanks, it was said to max first Combat Agillity AA before Combat Stability AA, because it's better to avoid a hit than take a hit for less dmg.
    This was especially true when your avoidance skills were working well in raids.
    Sadly since raid mobs have 100 % strikethrough and nearly hit you all the time, then mitigation has much more impact than before.
    I regret it, because I think the best tank rule should be that's it's better to avoid a hit, even in today's content.
    yepmetoo post explains also well why I chose Heroic Sta, it's for the HP side which is atm the best "mitigation" tool atm against raid mobs helped by the fact that AE are much more harsh than before, and because I agree that AC has lost a lot of ground regarding its impact on DI.
    If I could have seen clearer avoidance gain going HAgi or HDex, i would chose it.
    I think also that given yet HDex is the best stat for melee DPS, HAgi should be the winner for tanks, so that it's not always the same stats that are important for all.
  16. Zaltan Journeyman

    I run Hagi still. 20k hp just isnt enough of a boost for me to even be worried about. Hagi still helps out in group content, the chance to miss hits in raids may be low but if it does its worth it. 20k hp is such a low number and yes it might be the difference to save you but that chance is also extremely low in raids. If you go that low in general its because you have spammed your defensive's away or the healer is chilling on gems :) (I get the idea with HDex but i find i can do decent numbers without it and i dont play a warrior to top dps so if its the difference of me being 1 place down then im fine with that)
  17. Wulfhere Augur

    Let's consider a 100k hitting raid mob that has 90% accuracy. Simple anecdotes ...

    During a raid that 20K hp pool, with healing, will absorb 100k extra damage in 5 hits. 5 Hits takes like 1-2 seconds.

    Meanwhile, all that extra hAgi amounts to maybe 1% more actual misses? So 1 in 100 swings is an extra miss, avoiding 100k damage.

    If that's even close to real, then hSta is like 50 times better then hAgi.
  18. The real Sandaormo Augur

    Math: this stuff is hard.

    The reason you stack hAGI is not for the 1 in 100 times the monster will miss you. Its the 50 out of a 100 times the monster will hit you for less than their max hit. Until someone can show where those breaking points are and proves through parsing which is better, your probably ok going either way.

    I understand diminishing returns go into effect but at what point. I am not saying I know more than anyone else. I just haven't seen parses proving theories for or against hAGI or hSTM.
  19. Natal Augur

    You obviously don't know what mitigation means.
  20. Natal Augur

    Missing the occasional hit is completely useless if you don't have enough leeway for your healers to heal your through a damage spike. And it is also useless if you DO have enough leeway. So basically pushing everything into a small chance of avoiding a couple of hits is pointless and counter productive.

    Doing whatever you can to mitigate damage taken is what you SHOULD be doing as a tank. Even if it means taking more damage overall, surviving the damage spikes is the only thing that is important as a main tank. Everything else is secondary.

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