Take me back to 1999

They're actually much better. You just didn't keep up.

They did. FF14 has the best community for socializing and meeting people. MMO-lites like Monster Hunter and Elden Ring have fantastic communities.

Truth is you got old and the world kept moving.

Is your opinion based on being an American, playing on American servers?

I do not care for MMO-lites, you can keep those.

Truth is, I've kept up and watched what was once a great experience for people get watered down in to the yellow brick road gold rush we see today.

I'd love to return to 1999, but Everquest is pretty damn low on my list of reasons why.

You don't think the culture of PC gamers from 1999 changed?

There's this big list of Oakwynd guilds a few posts down. All using Discord, most wanting members to download maps. Both things that make EQ a lot easier to play.

How many threads are there about people wanting to box characters, instead of waiting for a group. Multiboxing makes EQ far easier.

It's not console gamers that "changed" PC gaming. It's PC gamers themselves who want less tedious games, including most EQ TLP players.

How many play on TLP without maps, without ever boxing, without discord. How many play like "1999". Almost no one. Is that because of "playstation" or "xbox"? Nope.

What was the first big change in Vanguard, Saga of Heroes? Well, faster travel. Why? Because the PC community from 1999, that you say hasn't changed, asked for this change.

What's the ratio of people who simply printed out maps from EQAtlas compared to those who hand drew them all?

Like 1000 to 1?

How many players hand draw all their maps on a piece of paper for TLP? I mean if it's so awesome, you all should have your hand drawn maps to show us right?
*cricket sounds*

This idea that EQ players were happily hand drawing out all their maps is this Everquest revisionism told through rose-tinted glasses. People went to EQAtlas and pressed print.

And this idea that it's adult PC gamers who are this hardcore group of gamers and consoles gamers are these spoiled brats who get everything handed to them is hilarious. When an EQ player needs to solve a quest, most head straight to Allakhazam for the solution. When a kid playing the latest Zelda game needs to solve something, they will scream at you not to give them any spoilers because they want to solve it themselves.

These things did make EQ engaging and difficult back in the day but i think its important to understand that the world has changed and certain mechanics don't age well or adapt. Computers now days are much more powerful and people are much more educated on programing. Things like no maps don't really matter because rather quickly some individual maps out the area and puts it online and thus everyone has maps. Also if you make things too tedious you start to push people into trying to cheat. Thus the birth of things like Red Guides. This means you have to focus extra resources into preventing cheating and this takes time away from building the game. Its is a very common problem with games that reward long term grinding that individuals will try and circumvent the system whether its through botting or hacking. Especially for a game as old as EQ with as small as a team it has its much easier just to give people the easier road than to police a harder yet more engaging one.

We are moving away from the era of grinding and more into the era of skill. The games that get people engaged the most are games where your skill level is the barrier of progression. MMOs are moving away from long tedious grind and moving toward complex mechanics and strategy. These concepts are much harder and less satisfying to cheat and fit better with the average persons lifestyle. If you are less competitive at a game because you can't spend as much time at your computer as someone else that's frustrating and you have no agency over that. Compared to if you are not as competitive at a game because someone is better than you. You still may be frustrated but now the control is your hands and that makes the game much more engaging.

So instead of allowing those who have slight handicaps to excel you add a million dumb mechanics so they can no longer raid. seems fair. smh

Nothing will ever be 100% fair. It's about appealing to the majority.

It's a generational thing. We are well into the mindset of "me me me!!" and instant gratification. The changes in the game are a reflection of that (of any MMO running right now to be fair.) Gone are the days of sitting in a zone for 8 hours, maybe change places, watching group members come and go. All for that 1 level. Now it's, sit around in the lobby all day to collect buffs, you probably won't use for a week, and wait for that guy that is boxing XYZ and offering a TA so you can get that 35% of a level. Then wait for the next one....

By far the most toxic people I have met in game have been the players that weren't born or were too young to know what EQ was. They have only been playing the game for a handful of years. The community was 100% better in the early years then it is now.

days in Dreadlands cycling through people grinding the hell levels, torture and so satisfying at the same time! made many friends sitting there chatting as we drudged through!

I think a lot of this is due to how poorly EQ has managed catchup mechanics. There is little incentive for max level people to do lower level content which creates top heavy servers that require charity such as you are suggesting to make any real progress in the game.

I don't think that is what anyone is trying to push for

and yet that's what's happening

The original “me” generation are the Baby Boomer generation. The people you’re upset with are the 60 year olds that are acting 16.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_generation

I can stand behind that. When I came back, I hadn't played since I was raiding in RoF. If I didn't have a couple of friends that still were floating around at max level, I would be so far back I would have quit and waited on the next TLP, and with how bad that one will end up doing I probably would have walked away for good. Barely anyone is doing the ToV missions, they for sure aren't form groups up for it. Same with ToL and even NoS is basically just farming doors over and over. So, I don't know how they expect people who come back to do them by themselves. No one is coming back and jumping into AoW or Velks missions at 110. No one is doing the VT mission or the oubliette of light at 115 missions by themselves... and all those missions are a huge chunk of the leveling experience you get. I almost think they do it on purpose to get people to pay for the use of a TLP server.

So Triconx definitely sounds like someone who didn't start playing EQ till way after all the QoL features were introduced... and Shakara I know for a fact wasn't even born

Char created Dec 99 with 1100+ days played on my live char. Yep, didnt play until all those QOL things....6 months after launch?

Na most of those people no longer play EQ, due to how the game is now. I think I have bumped into 2 people that would fit into the "boomer" category, over the last 2-3 years, and both of them were just casually going through the game and didn't complain and cause issues. The people that are toxic are the 25–35-year-olds. I would be willing to bet that the "oldheads" that still play EQ a vast majority of them are 40-55. These people typically hold onto the old values that were in EQ.

Please stop generalising and putting people in to stereotypes. I find it offensive.

If anything, todays genere of gamers are more self entitled due to most games being released today allowing for 95% solo completions and no need or requirement to you know, play an MMORPG with other people.

Its not just EQ that has this current mentality, its every modern game out there.

A quick brisk over their forums and discords will show that so many players today are all about the me mentality rather then the group and social aspect of it and if you mention anything about bringing the social and grouping aspect to the MMORPG, you get stoned to death!!!