T4 weapon ratios.

Discussion in 'Melee' started by Brogett, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. Brogett Augur

    Given rogues have had a "rog only piercer" itemisation slot for some time, and been balanced (hah!) around it, we seem to have got stitched up with T4 as we have no rog only piercer except for the quested one, meaning zero choice. It also means we can't do the quest dagger AND have another T4 dagger.

    The issue stems from the ratios between rog only and rog+others daggers being 4% of so between them and less than 4% gap between tiers. The next expansion appears to be announced with very little itemisation growth, which may mean the rog only one is again the only viable choice.

    An example:

    108/20 (5.40) T1 war,rog,brd,rng,bst dagger
    108/20 (5.40) T1 war,rog,brd,rng,bst dagger
    113/20 (5.65) T1 rog dagger

    111/20 (5.55) T2 war,rog,brd,rng,bst dagger
    110/19 (5.79) T2 rog dagger

    107/19 (5.63) T3 war,rog,brd,rng,bst dagger - weaker than T1 dagger
    111/19 (5.84) T3 rog dagger (seriously, 110 to 111?)

    110/19 (5.79) T4 war,rog,brd,rng,bst dagger - identical to T2 dagger
    114/19 (6.00) T4 quest reward

    So unless we want to do all the hero quests (some many times other) then basically T4 offers us something equivalent to T2 raid dropped dagger. I exaggerate a bit, the backstab component is better, but even so that's for MH only (we do have two hands to equip afterall) and it's also still not a huge change.

    Compare it to berserker 2Her ratios:

    8.031 T2 2hp
    8.029 T2 2hs
    8.033 T2 2hb
    8.588 T3 2hp
    8.600 T3 2hs
    8.813 T4 2hp
    8.800 T4 2hs quest reward

    So they have a perfectly viable setup (remember they only need 1 weapon) without the quest reward, and the quested one is basically identical ratio.

    Rangers have choices of T4 non-quested weaponry that is comparable in dps.

    Monks however appear to be in the same boat - T4 quest or nothing at all. Although monks as a class aren't hurting right now, why is it so random with some classes basically being forced to do the long quest while others don't have to?
  2. Tuluvian Elder

    I mentioned this during beta for t4 on the dps thread at safehouse. (just the part about the rogue daggers, didn't look at other classes)
  3. FatbukSlapmeat Augur

    Every class didn't get an upgrade for every weapon type in every tier. There hasn't been a Berserker usable 2hb since Chapterhouse in T2.
  4. Brogett Augur

    But berserkers don't *need* 2hb as 2hp or 2hs is adequate, so it's not at all the same thing. Rogues have a choice of exactly 1 type of weapon[1], and that's been subverted for the quest instead. Same as monk.

    [1]Just because we can use 1hs/1hb it doesn't mean we're going to. It'd be like asking a berserker to use a weapon from the last expansion instead. The choice just isn't remotely viable. similarly for monks and h2h vs 1hb/2hb, and they too suffered with their normal items being replaced by the quest only.
  5. Romance Augur

    110/19 (5.79) T4 war,rog,brd,rng,bst dagger - identical to T2 dagger

    As you said, it has a higher backstab dmg, and because of that would likely make a better mainhand than the t3. But you'd have to parse that to really know. As well you're only thinking about rogues, 111/19 would be a 4 base dmg upgrade from the previous tier for every other class that chooses to use a dagger.

    107/19 (5.63) T3 war,rog,brd,rng,bst dagger - weaker than T1 dagger

    This... is just not true. As you didn't take into consideration a dmg aug, or the disease dmg, or the higher backstab damage.

    As for the quested weapon, it's best in slot for every class afaik. Including Berserkers, again don't forget the dmg aug and in some cases the weapon effect.
  6. Brogett Augur

    Seems I'm wrong about monk too. Fearbrand is h2h, not listed on eqresource. 116/18
  7. Reprisal Augur

    Right ratio, but it actually is a 1hb.
  8. Brogett Augur

    Ah I misread it then, sorry. Wasn't even aware they made a 1hb that fast again, nor one with such a large ratio (it's the same I thikn as your quested T4 h2h one).

    Do you have h2h specific AAs that make 1hb a poor choice, even if they're the same ratio?
  9. Behelit Augur


    i think monk HHE proc is restricted to the h2h weapon type just like rogue one is restricted to piercers.
  10. Brogett Augur

    Good point on adding the aug, but that basically makes it equivalent to something two tiers lower instead of weaker. I did point out the benefit of having higher backstab though in my post. However ideally we should be upgrading more than just that.

    As for the quested weapon, yes I know it's best in slot for every class due to the focus effect (it's same ratio for some classes, but the focus makes it best still). I'm not complaining about that at all. Rather that for rogues it's actively *replacing* a weapon instead of being in addition to the normal ones.
  11. Brogett Augur

    So they're pretty much in the same boat as us then :/

    It's something that at the time seems like a good deal; specialisation meaning more dps. Great! However you then realise you get balanced around assuming you've taken that specialisation route, so all that really happened, long term, is that you lost choice.

    It makes for a dull game when there is so little variation. The all/all armour has helped a bit - there are players that will focus on str, on dex, or even some wierdos focusing on hp, but it's a choice still and I applaud it. Weaponry however the choice is be rubbish or not. Not exactly much pondering required there.
  12. gcubed Augur

    Rogues, monks, warriors, mages and wizzies have issues with this (mages and wizzies prefer 2HB's over one handers). Neccies are "special". Not sure about the knights and beastlords.

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