Sword and Board DPS > Dual Wield

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Espiritun, Jun 7, 2013.

  1. Brosa Augur

    1. Nerfing SS doesn't fix anything. With SS as it is our dps is right where it should be while tanking S+B (mediocre)
    2. Yes
    3. Agree this will be useful but not an answer. DW needs a complete overhaul. People keep talking about giving DW a decap function. Memo: SOE is killing these types of abilities. Decap/headshot/assassination have been discontinued. They will NOT be considering this. I on the other hand don't want it anyway because I encounter LBs .001% of the time and greens 0%. Has no function at the end game level.
  2. Morgoth Elder

    Dual Wield is a Warrior stance and it should have a viable, necessary role to play in the Warrior arsenal.

    It's just stupid the way it is now.
  3. Battleaxe Augur

    Given that SOE is unlikely to create a quick kill/swarming role for DW. (SOE isn't continuing abilities that make this possible for classes that have been doing this).

    Given that tanks quite rightly use a shield when tanking current content dark blue mobs.

    Then one would expect DW and 2H (funny how DW fans neglect to mention 2H) to be DPS setups for use when one is not the MT.

    The main legitimate S&B issue is not the DPS one creates while getting hit. The issue is people doing rather high DPS while using a shield when the are not getting hit. The obvious fix to my mind is to divert some of the SS boosted damage to a Damage Shield you only have while using a shield. Use a shield while getting hit do Warrior appropriate damage. Use one when not getting hit and your DPS goes down.

    In the same way not getting aggro when you are DPSing is supposed to be a good thing. Put Echo of Anger only on shields. Should you want to generate more aggro than what you do when DPSing, then do poorer DPS but better aggro by using a shield,.
  4. Damoncord Augur

    I agree. However I do feel DW should have a DPS role of some form just not sure how they will actually implement it.

    Again I agree; however, that wasn't directly referenced. What I understand them to be meaning is take some of the SS bonus and make it a Warrior dps bonus no matter what the form. Coincidentally this would boost DW and 2H DPS while reducing the DPS from S&B when not tanking.

    Again it was discussed about how to make DW a viable weapon set, 2H everyone agrees should be a DPS set.

    Honestly I agree with the first part, and can't argue much with the second part. I could see, instead of a DS, having us almost riposte with a bash on the shield, where Sony could change the damage on it based on the shield AC. To me this would be more in line with us as warriors instead of gaining a Damage shield when we pick up the shield.

    Once again you bring out your drum about putting the agro mod only on shields. I don't agree with it I think it should be moved to a type 3 aug which would open up tanks options on where to put it and allow us to chose which mask we want to use instead of having to ask "is it the one in the teir with the agro mod?"
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  5. Battleaxe Augur

    I agree that a increase in Damage Shield through shield use lacks some verisimilitude, but so does getting off a riposte bash (Damoncord ripostes for 48 damage) every time there's an effort to strike you. So let's, as Elidroth has put it in the past, theorycraft for a moment.

    1. It does feels like a technique learned (riposte bash) that you could elect not to do rather than a "damage causing abrasive" (damage shield) on shields once you've learned the skill.

    2. But it could be seen as a technique learned that behaves as if there were a damage causing consequence of striking a shield. So, mechanically (under the hood) it's done by an overcap of worn damage shield, it's proportinal to shield AC (since it should be related to gear quality), but since it's done as overcap DS it gets automatically bundled in the damage shield report - every time you're struck npc gets hurt.

    3. So, to control whether or not you are doing it there's an AA ability you can engage that puts a buff on you if you have a shield equipped and the buff goes away should you click it or unequip a shield. This allows choosing to do the damage or not and provides an indicator, doing it only when using a shield, varying amounts of it depending on shield quality, and doesn't requires a seperate damage event line in the log.

    As we've both noted SS would be adjusted so that some damage produced by the main hander is shifter to damage produced by virtue of using a shield and tanking while using it. Lowering the DPSing while using a shield but not tanking situation.

    Rat-a-tat-tat!

    (IMO, not necessarily your's) There shouldn't be options on where to put it. It should be on shields imposing a DWing or 2Hing is useful when not tanking but not so useful while trying to tank mirror image of shield use above. Put it on shields and we can chose which mask we want once we've gotten our first shield with EoA on it.

    There are those that want DW (and of course 2H) to be useful. I agree. There are those that want DW to be able to be used almost all the time. I disagree.
  6. Dre. Altoholic

    1 and 2 go together to keep tanking DPS the same and add DPS to other stances.
    Plenty of times SOE has made bad decisions, changed their mind and set things right. Recent example -check out the test patch notes.
    Funny how every other class that can either 2H or DW does better DPS with DW. Why should 2H be better for us again?
    Everyone agrees 2H should do better DPS than 1H+S. I don't necessarily agree it should do more DPS than DW. I'd like to see them differentiated further. E.G. DW for sustained/single, 2H for Burns and AE/mass killing.
    I don't see why a Warrior would want to limit their options. 1h+s is but I don't see you complaining about it. 1h+s, 2H and DW should all be equally viable "almost all the time".
    Since you posted this yet again, I will reply yet again that this is the worst idea you've ever had.
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  7. Damoncord Augur

    I agree and think this sounds good when you explain it this way.

    I think if we trade EoA on the face to the shield it would just change from how it is now with every tank needing X Mask, to every tank needs X Shield, in the tier. I know at least historicly for my guild, it's been a pain getting the agro masks, but even worse picking up shields. I proposed the agro mod being on an augment simply so you weren't stuck with every tank needing X item from a specific teir. After all, the group agro mods are all the same, and the raid agro mods are all the same so why not make it into an aug that you remove when you want to upgrade the gear?

    I've been one that says each set should have some purpose but right now DW doesn't. I really hope the Devs have some good ideas for DW otherwise I see it sitting back and not being used.

    And for the DW24/7 it's a bad idea, we should be using the weapon set that is optimal for the situation we are in.