Not A Bug Summoner's Velium Endowed Earring creating a weaker pet

Discussion in 'Bug Reports' started by Tinkeringmule, Jan 11, 2021.

  1. Tinkeringmule New Member

    Just go my new CoV earring and did some testing on the Combat dummies.

    Comparing to EM28 the new EM29 still creates a L114 pet (disappointing) but the awful thing is whereas the EM28 Water pet did ~58k dps (with Burnout XIV Rk.III, Arcane Distellect, Primal Fusion running and using a Summoned Fireblade) the EM29 pet does ~55k.

    Tried the Riotous Servant Rk. III - same L119 pet (again, disappointing). With the EM28 focus received ~52k dps and with the EM29 got ~49.2k.

    What's going on?
  2. Tinkeringmule New Member

    Did some additional testing and found my even older EM27 ear is better for pet --- this needs to get fixed fast.
    Chanteren and Adruger like this.
  3. Tinkeringmule New Member

    Is there a chance at getting an official comment on this? In Beta it seemed to work correctly - how did that code not make its way to Live? Was there a slip-'n-fall? Do we need to call an EMT?

    But seriously - is this being corrected?
  4. Adruger New Member

    Tested with EM 27 - EM 29, all result in the same level pet, level 114 when summoning Spirit of Blizzent (113), if no EM is worn, the pet summons at level 110.
  5. Ratalthor Developer

    We ran some tests that resulted in the newer item having higher dps.
    How are you testing it so we can try to replicate it?
    Sancus likes this.
  6. Tinkeringmule New Member

    All testing was done using a water pet. Buffs were: Burnout XIV Rk. III; Arcane Distillect; Primal Fusion. All pets were given the same pair of Summoned Fireblades. Tested on Combat Dummy Beza (Model - Qela). Each pet was allowed to engage for several minutes until the average dps could be established. In the case of the Riotous Servant Rk. III I ran 10 separate 44 second rounds (their duration) and then averaged. Ran all the same testing for EM28 and EM29 and an abbreviated set for EM27.

    A note on the pet levels. For the past many expansion every 2nd expansion the mage pets have either equaled the caster's level or exceeded it - we are now on the 3rd expansion where the focused pet remains at level 114 - an oversight?

    It's not like mage dps has been going anywhere but down relative to most other dps classes these past many expansions as well, but alas - perhaps a topic for another thread.
    Chanteren likes this.
  7. Soulbanshee Augur

    You need longer than 44 seconds, more like an hour. Burst DPS will be full of RNG, you need to test sustained.

    Pet level is entirely cosmetic, yes it gives us the fuzzies, but entire cosmetic, DPS is tuned per template not scaled off level.
    Fenthen and Duder like this.
  8. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    He stated he ran 10 tests each 44 seconds long. Though I do agree an hour long parse would remove most of the RNG-related variation.
  9. Soulbanshee Augur

    44 seconds isn't enough to smooth out burst RNG. Neither is 5 minutes.
  10. Tinkeringmule New Member

    Two other notes: Spellhold was ON and Taunt was OFF.

    Spellcasting with pets is useless unless it's a fire pet or an air pet where the MOB can be stunned - otherwise it just wastes dps. *MANY* years ago an earth pet's ability to root a MOB came in handy (assuming the MOB could be rooted).

    And 44 seconds is as long as a Servant lasts with max AA's etc. so if you have a way to make them last longer pray tell - otherwise it's repeated casts and average. The final upshot here is that the EM29 focused pets were simply NOT delivering better dps than either EM28 nor the EM27 which is worrisome. And seriously - who has an hour to dps a MOB in the wild to see if they can bring their damage up to some significant level? Hold on MOB ! Just wait a while. I'm sure I can kill you faster if you just give me more time .... duh.
  11. Soulbanshee Augur

    Combat dummy, chain cast RS, more than a 5 min parse, there's ways to do it.
  12. menown Augur

    A sample size of 30 is sufficient for statistical purposes. However, you also need to raise the AC level of the combat dummy over 6000 for each earring test. Pet templates come with different levels of attack which is rolled against an NPCs AC. The base AC of a combat dummy is too low (~500) to differentiate the attack levels of each pet template.
    Chanteren likes this.
  13. Buds Elder

    You shouldn't have to do micro parsing to see a difference. An SK, with the 2hd weapon from CoV compared to ToV, will be very easy to see the DPS increase, in any parse. The mobs hps have been raised a lot in CoV. The EM29 should be a very noticeable dps upgrade for the pets, not a tiny one, if any. Also the pet should be level 115!! The EM28 pet should have been an even con, the EM29 should unquestionably be an even con at 115. I think the devs are getting a bit behind.
  14. Soulbanshee Augur

    It's not, 1 EM is somewhere around a 2-3% increase, its not equivalent to player DPS increases. You do need long term sustained parses to compare, and even then max or mean is a better indicator than average because of the wide margin you get from RNG.

    Pet could be 115, but it wouldn't matter for the pet template. Yes historically we have eventually had even con pets, but it's not an indicator of power.
  15. chronicler Augur

    There is a class that got rogue pet, no idea if a rogue pet can assassinate.

    A real rogue can assassinate higher level mobs as they gain levels, would that not also be true for pets ?

    And you are better at defending against mobs as you gain levels, is that not also true for pets ?
    And spells/procs are more resisted if the mobs is higher level than the pet.

    If so, then a level for a pet would also mean things for it.
  16. Soulbanshee Augur

    Pets don't have abilities like players, it's a very simple system, they just do what they do. They have melee skills, stats, and that's about it. They don't use endurance or mana. Don't remember if it was after a certain level or if the pet system was changed, but water pets backstab from the front currently. Pets do things but bypass what would normally be the systems in place for players. The resists are hardcoded for the template as the stats are, everything is manually tuned for the performance of the particular pet focus. There are many mechanics that bypass pets entirely also, like event mechanics for silence/charm/targetted damage ignore pets, so they don't have to have the same considerations as players that way too.
  17. Buds Elder

    The increase from one expansion best focus to another, should be noticeable. A weapon upgrade from one expansion to another is noticeable. I believe that pet level/levels matter. Mobs that con higher or lower have bonuses or penalties for damage they take and damage they do. I assume it's the same for pets also. Doesn't matter they should be level 115 either way, to separate them from the lower EM.
  18. Ratalthor Developer

    We ran additional parse tests over 10 minutes long that resulted in the newer item having higher dps, so we haven't been able to repro. Is anybody else seeing this issue?
  19. Tinkeringmule New Member

    As Buds noted "The increase from one expansion best focus to another, should be noticeable." In all of my testing I found a drop in dps for my water pet and rage pets - perhaps when you tested you found a slight increase. This should not be a situation where from tester-to-tester the change should be so little that results fit within a margin of error. If I have a ranger guildmate who has the new CoV bow compare their dps to the ToV one is the result going to be "meh - it's a little better" or "can't tell the difference" ? Nope. Going from a 325 / 24 weap to a 370 / 24 one makes a dramatic difference. However the pet classes struggle to see any positive upgrade based off of our "Top" item get this expansion i.e our pet focus. Expansion after expansion lately most other dps classes far outstrip magicians and beastlords - at least necromancers had their class spell lines revamped and now sit atop the parse.

    SIMPLE EQUATION: Average Expansion "A" MOB HPs divided by average Expansion "B" MOB HPs == average dps multiplier that all dps classes get (including their pets). Not happening? Then folks just fall behind the game.

    I'm in CoV and it simply takes far longer to dispatch a MOB than in ToV - which is why after getting the highest pet focus in the game I felt that I needed to run testing.

    Not to have this bug thread devolve into a "neglected class" thread it should at least serve to show that an unremarkable increase in pet focus from expansion to expansion is just contributing to the class gap and the desirability of certain classes in groups and raids.
  20. Lucius Telles New Member

    The parses show that the pet is slightly better. However the amount of the increase is disappointing at best. In TBL era, going to the raid focus turn the pet yellow and I was able to molo red named. The raid focus here doesn't allow me to consider any current named, and isn't very well matched even for T2 trash. It was simply a small incremental increase in DPS. 200 DPS increase seems statistically insignificant. When the typical parse has me at somewhere around 200k (1/10th of 1%). The pet is supposed to be an extension of the class, however he is quickly becoming barely a blip in the parse.

    Note I have misses turned off, hence the 100% accuracy reported from parser. I don't need useless spam.

    EM 23 - Spirit of Blizzent (113) - Pet Level 112
    Dummy set to Level 120, AC 6011

    Combat Dummy Caza on 1/28/2021 in 614sec

    Adruger`s warder
    --- DMG: 3526095 @ 5742 sdps (5742 dps in 614s) [96.88%]
    ------ Total: 3526095 -- Bite: 3442083 -- Bash: 84012
    ------ Normal rate: 59% (38.1% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 41% (61.9% of DMG)
    ------ Attempts: 1128 -- Hits: 1128 -- Misses: 0 -- Defended: 0 -- Accuracy: 100%

    EM 27 - Spirit of Blizzent (113) - Pet Level 114
    Dummy set to Level 120, AC 6011

    Adruger`s warder
    --- DMG: 4620272 @ 6498 sdps (6638 dps in 696s) [94.25%]
    ------ Total: 4620272 -- Bite: 4517079 -- Bash: 103193
    ------ Normal rate: 59.5% (36.8% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 40.5% (63.2% of DMG)
    ------ Attempts: 1281 -- Hits: 1281 -- Misses: 0 -- Defended: 0 -- Accuracy: 100%

    EM 28 - Spirit of Blizzent (113) - Pet Level 114
    Dummy set to Level 120, AC 6011

    Adruger`s warder
    --- DMG: 4033804 @ 6723 sdps (6723 dps in 600s) [97.06%]
    ------ Total: 4033804 -- Bite: 3933836 -- Bash: 99968
    ------ Normal rate: 61% (39.6% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 39% (60.4% of DMG)
    ------ Attempts: 1104 -- Hits: 1104 -- Misses: 0 -- Defended: 0 -- Accuracy: 100%

    EM 29 - Spirit of Blizzent (113) - Pet Level 114
    Dummy set to Level 120, AC 6011

    Adruger`s warder
    --- DMG: 4556730 @ 6914 sdps (6914 dps in 659s) [96.24%]
    ------ Total: 4556730 -- Bite: 4451722 -- Bash: 105008
    ------ Normal rate: 60.1% (38.3% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 39.9% (61.7% of DMG)
    ------ Attempts: 1227 -- Hits: 1227 -- Misses: 0 -- Defended: 0 -- Accuracy: 100%

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