Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Iven, Oct 24, 2020.

  1. Vizier Augur

    Buddy you really are white knighting you just cant see it. I get it, I still LOVE this game, despite the incompetents that have held the reigns over the years. The amount of QoL improvements added doesnt even out pace the new bugs introduced. We have many (all) classes that have been in limbo for YEARS, with no communication on whether or not the outstanding issues are even being CONSIDERED.

    Any other game released today wouldn't dare be this apathetic with their player base. Game companies try to woo their players to invest time in their world over the thousands of other game worlds out there. They do this by talking to the community daily. We get nothing in EQ.
  2. Randomized Augur

    No it's called being realistic and understanding they can't please everyone all the time and as I said, I don't give in to the entitlement and instant gratification era that you all seem to be sucked in to.

    QoL isn't a fix for bugs. You know that right. As for the classes, I can somewhat understand that. How long did it take for Necro's to get their DoT revamp? But it happened. Can't do everything all at once, and they have their own priority list. Lots of demands and and not so many Devs to work on the demands.

    And that's your issue. You're comparing EQ, a game that's 22 years old and been on the decline for years to something new and shiny and the funds to do what you're wanting.

    WoW did the same thing. Started off great with them talking to the community. And then the "can't please everyone" came along and people started bashing on the devs and the CS team, so they shelled up. And for as much as everyone bashes the EQ team, I would really want to come talk to half these people either just to have them spaz out because of the entitlement era you're all stuck in.

    Essentially, it's their game to make/do as they please. We pay to play their game. We can give suggestions and report bugs or broken things as we see fit and pray they make the changes we desire. But that's up to them. Don't like the game, don't play it. I've taken multiple breaks from multiple games when I get bored or get over them for whatever reasons (and yes, some from a lack of attention to certain aspects of the game).

    Best way to be heard: with your wallet. Either direction
    PCSS, Skuz and Celephane like this.
  3. Allworth Elder

    How many QOL player suggestions are implemented per year by the devs?

    I would be nice to get some actual numbers then we could properly evaluate the efficacy of these forums. Making a guess, I would say that a handful of suggestions make it into game each year. Maybe that's being too optimistic.

    To be honest and with all respect, I think these forums are a waste of time. They seem to exist to give a lot of players false hope that their voices are being heard. Nothing changes. I suppose there is some benefit to for players to come here to get a lot of the frustration off their chests. At least when bugs and suggestions are posted here publicly, there is no excuse as the ball is in Darkpaw's court. If they choose to ignore them, then that's on them.
    PCSS likes this.
  4. Shaiken Journeyman

    I'd love to see the Vah'Shir Druid and Iksar Berserker become a thing. Still not sure how Elf Beastlord won, Froglok BST would have made a ton more sense lore wise lol.

    More class race combos PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE alts are what keep me coming back to the game.
    Skuz likes this.
  5. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    Someone put too much pessimism in their coffee this morning.

    I do agree profitability is one of EverQuest's strongest acquisition drivers. However, it goes far deeper than that. Brand recognition and IP are also very strong, and financial indicators show there is more money to be made by strategically improving game code, moving to a 64-bit client, and shoring up HR.

    Many of the moves Darkpaw is making indicate reinvestment is occurring at a rate not seen for decades. I feel optimistic about the future of EverQuest.
    PCSS and Skuz like this.
  6. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    Go work as an EQ dev for a day. I dare you.

    I promise you the EverQuest team wants to implement fixes and QoL changes and grow the game. But with finite resources they MUST triage. They cannot do everything they want to do.

    And you're right, it's on them. That doesn't make the forums a waste of time. And no Dev response to a thread or idea is a given. They aren't here to listen to their players 100% of the time. Many of the ideas on these forums are so far-fetched they are worth ignoring.

    Darkpaw are making a product and YOU decide whether you buy it or not. You act like Darkpaw should get down on their collective knees and worship you for playing their game. :D
    PCSS, Skuz and Randomized like this.
  7. Randomized Augur

    And how many are required to be implemented each year? There's so many suggestions that one could only take a fraction of the suggestions and it'd still be a lot of changes.

    We don't need 10 new QoL implementations to the game every year. One decent QoL change goes a long way.

    You're under the assumption that these forums are meant to talk directly with the Devs. That's not the case. It's for them to share what they want with us, and for us to talk amongst ourselves as a community. A lot of information is garnered and passed on these forums and they have helped countless players get the answers and insight on what they wanted. These forums are not a waste of time. Unless of course you're expecting these forums to be a direct link to a Devs ear.
    PCSS and Celephane like this.
  8. Allworth Elder

    I agree with you 95% minus the hyperbole and the white knighting.

    I've worked in both the AAA and the indie video game industry. I've worked on a MMO. EQ from a design standpoint is not exactly rocket science. The thought of moving to southern California with its high taxes, out of control crime, prohibitive housing costs, and woke milieu is not very appealing to a veteran designer. This is why most of the new hires at Daybreak are millennials who will put up with relocating.

    I have repeatedly stated that the devs are not the problem. They are between a rock and a hard place. The problem is the ownership and management who are apathetic, underwhelming and mere custodians. The EverQuest franchise has been chronically understaffed. The good talent that they had has left to go work for Blizzard. Those that remain are probably looking at other career options.

    Until Enad Global 7 takes takes an active interest in the EQ franchise or sells it to a company that does, nothing will change. With the right company, the EQ franchise could be exponentially more profitable than it is. Imagine if EG7 purchased the LEGO or Star Wars franchise and let it atrophy? The fans of both genre would be justifiably outraged. But, that is exactly what has been allowed to happen to this storied franchise.

    The magnificent EQ franchise and the legions of loyal fans deserve far better.
    PCSS likes this.
  9. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    Overstaffed? Proof please.
    Nennius likes this.
  10. Allworth Elder

    Framing the debate in terms of "need" is wrong. I play EQ not because I need to but because I WANT to. That's a big difference. QOL changes generally help make the game less frustrating and increase subscriber retention. The more, the merrier. If you think we only deserve one per year, that's your opinion. I think that's far too low. My expectations of Darkpaw games work output are a bit higher than yours.

    The bug forums are meant for communication from the players to the devs. That is a fact. The other forums are not. As you said, it's mainly for dialogue for between players. However, I believe that most players who post threads are hoping to catch the attention of the devs with regard to certain problems and by offering suggestions. Even the devs cannot deny when a thread has hundreds of replies, that there is probably something in there that is worth considering that might make the game better.

    I think the bug forums are not a waste of time. But I still believe that the other forums are and I explained why in my previous post. That's just my opinion. Let's take a look at some metrics and see what positive changes have resulted to EQ as a result of players posting to the forums. I think many people would be interested to know this. Then if they were to see the data for themselves, they could come to their own conclusions about how useful they are.
  11. Allworth Elder

    That was a typo. I meant to say understaffed. Thanks for pointing that out.:)
    PCSS and Celephane like this.
  12. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    We want the same thing Allworth. But please ease up on the virtue signaling. It's just not a good fit for you.
  13. Iven Antonius Bayle

    Good argument, a friend of me noticed this too. Damage type wise it is meant to be partially the counterpart to the ranger class who does use melee and ranged DPS but not much spell DPS. But instead of making the spell DPS as powerfull as the ranger melee/range DPS it is meant to be just balanced between melee and spell DPS. Maybe 50% DPS (++/++++) is a bit to low and should be increased. But as the idea is to balance the class in all aspects its tanking ability had to be increased then too. So maybe its combined melee/spell DPS and tanking ability has to be increased to 70% either. The hard thing is to evenly balance the different categories to each other while also taking care to balance the class against other classes and not making it OPed or UPed.

    It would look like this then:
    • Defense +++/++++ 70%
    • Melee DPS +++/++++ 70%
    • Range DPS +++/++++ 70%
    • Spell DPS +++/++++ 70%
    • Healing 0%
    • Evac spells
    • Port spells
    • Summary: 280%
    • Summary defense + best DPS category: 140%
    The role of the spellsword must be a bit different than that of the ranger. Like the wizard it should be able to do some good burst DD spell damage including AE DDs when engaging a bunch of mobs. It would also offer CC with snare, root and stun but does also have the evac spell line as the only hybrid class for emergencies and travel use. The ranger has tracking, foraging, heals, and run speed buffs instead. As the wizard class is basically just DPS, a bit CC and a taxi, the multifunctional tools of the ranger can only be countered by making the Spellsword stronger in combat aspects like DPS and tanking.

    Another hard thing is to analyse how good other classes do tank and deal damage. The ranger could roughly look like this but it does depend on many factors like gear and play style:
    • Defense +++/++++ 65%
    • Melee DPS +++/++++ 75%
    • Range DPS ++++/++++ 100%
    • Spell DPS ++/++++ 40%
    • Healing +/++++ 25%
    • Tracking
    • Foraging
    • Run speed buffs
    • Summary: 305%
    • Summary defense + best DPS category:165%
    <-- Part 1
  14. StinkyVetWarrior Scholar

    This company does not even care enough to break down the Class Discussion Forum into specific classes. Instead they give you their take it or leave it Role Sub Forum; How lazy and uncaring is that?

    Instead, you have discussions about other classes interfering with what your looking for pertinent to your class. Good luck with your suggestion, let's see how the DBG trolls react to your thread.
    Allworth likes this.
  15. Vizier Augur

    Asking for communication from a company we have been shelling thousands of dollars to over the years is the BARE MINIMUM. Personally, I blame Sony. The culture in that company is one of dictatorial face plants. Sony started the "we aren't going to tell our players anything" trend. None of the overlords since have bothered to change it because, they aren't here for very long.

    Do you think DPG is the last studio that will develop EQ? I do not. I think they are going to give us a 64 bit client, with even MORE bugs than the existing 32 bit client. Then they are going to try to sell the game for more than they paid for it because now it's 64bit.

    They do not care about the game, only the money they can wring out of it before dumping it. The last company to own us that cared was Verant.
  16. Schadenfreude Augur

    Voting shenannigans organised by people who were butt-hurt a combo they didn't like was going to win so we ended up with the tree pet abomination.
    PCSS and Shaiken like this.
  17. Schadenfreude Augur

    The amount of work that would be required for a brand new class makes it incredibly unlikely to ever happen.
  18. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Good points on both side of the communication argument here, but even the "acting" CEO of EG7 & CEO of Daybreak said that the communication they gave to players was not good enough.

    Which is almost humourous to me, SoE/Daybreak/DarkPaw go for months or years at a time on scant discussion with players and then sporadically info-dump some very good information and have a very high quality discussion about the game but before the players can get everything off their chest and get some answers they retreat back into their slience bunker.
    Rinse & repeat for 20 years.
    Early on in EQ the devs were a whole lot more communicative, but that seems to be the case for most every new game.
    Great communication to start, with a healthy flow of ideas back and forth with players and developers - then the team gets cut down in size post-release and that communication is reduced a lot, then the studio cuts the team down to the bare minim required to make teh bare minimum amount of fixes and ongoing content - and communicating with players largely disappears.
    There's little to no time allocated by the people running the show for a healthy back & forth any more, it's all about doing "just enough" to keep us paying.
    Allworth likes this.
  19. Vizier Augur

    It's all moot. Take a look at the beta forums, DPG is completely buried. If this expac realeases with all the content it's supposed to have on day 1 I will be shocked. They do not have enough people to properly make this game. They are so far behind, just getting a playable expansion deployed in any form will be a stretch.

    All the balance and desperately needed gameplay issues will NOT be addressed in this expansion, nor will they be addressed for the first half of next year. Focus is on 64 bit client, you see. After thatn we will be into the next expansion cycle.

    So look for this thread next year at this time and see how much progress we have made.
  20. Shaiken Journeyman

    Well, I'm not looking for brand new classes, even if that is long over due for this game. Just race / class combos that should honestly be in game. The armor and weapons are already in game. The abilities are already in game. It is just pushing that onto a new race. The last time they did was back in what 2014? I mean it is money they could be making in race change market items. I would love to change my 4 druids to a vah, I hate being an elf/drakkin. All my zerkers are vah, but I would love making 2 or 3 of them an Iksar. Pretty sure I wouldn't be alone in this. Dark Elf Ranger and Bard options would be awesome. I mean for the most part all of these class and race combos exist in game through illusions, but it would be nice to have them as a default setting.

    To be honest, some of this stuff isn't lore breaking at all either, you cant tell me in over 22 years you wouldn't pick up on any new skill sets :p (innate magical abilities, might be harder, but wielding a big azz axe, not so much, at least for some races)
    Skuz likes this.